The new track beater:

[Matt Harris]

For those that didn't see it tonight:

http://www.auburn.edu/~harrima/my%20civic%201.jpg

http://www.auburn.edu/~harrima/my%20civic%202.jpg

Coming soon, Ground Control Coilovers and probably KYB AGX shocks. Shortly thereafter will be 15" wheels (Rota Slipstreams or Kosei K1's) with sticky rubber and a big brake conversion. Going to strip her out from the front seats back too.

After ragging it for a while with the current motor i'll swap in a B16A with JDM header, scratchbuilt exhaust and some form of intake. Probably a project for the winter, depending on funds. Clutch, LSD, and Hasport race motor mounts will all probably occur at the same time as well.

The final touches will be a few subtle custom body things that i'll do myself and probably an interior gauge panel as well. A little dent removal and then i'll have her re-sprayed Phoenix Yellow just to top it off.

Should be a fun project and a mean little track car. :D

[insert_car]

:lol: that shit is crazy! i can't believe you already have it. GL man! 8)

[ActiveAero]

If you plan on making it a track car you might want to look into a little beefier suspension setup. If you are just looking for a good better than stock setup to have some fun with however that setup is great.

Also you might want to keep the smaller rims. Cheaper to keep a good set of tires on. I'm not sure about hatches but I know Integra front brakes are a direct bolt on for early CRX's (which are very similar in many regards).

Are you set on a B16? Its an awesome engine and you can get them for cheap, but you might want to look into a B18B as well. No it doesn't have VTEC but mid range power is quite dramatic over a B16 and in terms of acceleration they aren't far off from each other.

[WiggiE]

Check out http://www.fastbrakes.com/ for you Honda braking needs or do a swap from an Integra.

GC's are good but don't go with off the shelf rates. If it is a track only car I'd go with 400f/500r lb rates. You will have some nice rotation. Don't forget to upgrade the sway bars. Also with those spring rates you'll need some better vavled shocks, might want to look into Koni Yellows or Tokico Illuminas.

GL with the project and keep us out-of-towners updated!

[Frosty_DUB]

*shhh dont tell matt this but im gonna steal his winshield and head light switch in the middle of the night. hehe.*

[Matt Harris]

If you plan on making it a track car you might want to look into a little beefier suspension setup. If you are just looking for a good better than stock setup to have some fun with however that setup is great.

Also you might want to keep the smaller rims. Cheaper to keep a good set of tires on. I'm not sure about hatches but I know Integra front brakes are a direct bolt on for early CRX's (which are very similar in many regards).



Brock/Wiggie,

What suspension would you recommend? Not as a track only car, but driving me the 1 mile commute to work and track/autocross will be the cars primary motivations. (also driving it to the autocross)

Also, as far as the rims. Will a 10.2 inch upgrade fit under 14's? I'm pretty sure the 13" steelies aren't going to hack it.

And yes, i'm pretty much set on a B16A, at least until somebody shows me something to change my mind.

[Jess]

Id suggest you go with the h23 sleeved,bored block/h22 head, all the internal goodies, t60 running 3 bar, and 300 shot of nitrous.

During autocrosses, instead of 'steering' it would be more like 'stop and reposition the car for the next straight-away' but it'd be fun in a straight line!

But seriously, I dont know much about civic motors, but id look into the b18B thing. Im sure it'd make general commuting a little nicer because of the torque. i.e. not having to downshift to accomidate a 1 degree incline in the road. LOL

[Jess]

Also, these would look so phat on your new rizzide

http://auction4.comton.com/member/liveonspeed//TL1_HCI8891D3C5P4.jpg

[WiggiE]

What suspension would you recommend? Not as a track only car, but driving me the 1 mile commute to work and track/autocross will be the cars primary motivations. (also driving it to the autocross)
How much is your budget for suspension alone?

Also, as far as the rims. Will a 10.2 inch upgrade fit under 14's? I'm pretty sure the 13" steelies aren't going to hack it.
14s will fit. 10.2 upgrade you are talking about is from Integras. The bottom of the line Integras had 14" steelies. 13s will just be too small.

And yes, i'm pretty much set on a B16A, at least until somebody shows me something to change my mind.
What kind of track driving are you going to be doing?? All auto-x? Road course?

[Matt Harris]

What suspension would you recommend? Not as a track only car, but driving me the 1 mile commute to work and track/autocross will be the cars primary motivations. (also driving it to the autocross)
How much is your budget for suspension alone?

Also, as far as the rims. Will a 10.2 inch upgrade fit under 14's? I'm pretty sure the 13" steelies aren't going to hack it.
14s will fit. 10.2 upgrade you are talking about is from Integras. The bottom of the line Integras had 14" steelies. 13s will just be too small.

And yes, i'm pretty much set on a B16A, at least until somebody shows me something to change my mind.
What kind of track driving are you going to be doing?? All auto-x? Road course?

1. Trying to keep suspension in the $700 range

2. Yeah, the Integra upgrade was what I was thinking. Maybe i'll go with 14's

3. This is for both autocross and track (Road Atlanta, Roebling Road, Barber, Little Talledega, etc.) But I imagine with the frequency of events it will see more autocross action.[/b]

[insert_car]

1. Trying to keep suspension in the $700 range
[/b]

i say bump that a couple of hundred and throw a complete coilover setup on it! if not i would spring for the koni's

[Frosty_DUB]

Theres no reason to go B series if you dont want crazy ass hp. I suggest a D series with dual webber carbs. 8) www.exospeed.com has all the fresh D series go fast stuff. Plus it would be fun to build the motor and cheaper too,and you can get as much power NA as a b series, almost. IF it blows, you can get another one dirt cheap.

Thats what i would do anyway. :wink:

Tien has good coilovers for about 1k.

[maxpsi]

I see you are on a budget. In that case, you have chosen the best B series as far as best bang for your buck (B16). You are in for a treat with the aftermarket support.

If you are going to trash those 13 inch steelies for some 14 inchers, might I suggest the Honda OEM HX wheels. They weigh less than 11 lbs each, are OEM so they won't be hard to find, and can support a 195 tire. I say this because with these wheels you can fit the 195/60-14 Falken Azenis which I can get shipped to my house for about $200. These wheels are pretty popular, but if you look hard enough, I bet you could find a great deal on some (www.honda-tech.com, ebay, etc.).

Your car is relatively light since it shares a lot of its' characteristics with CRX. That also means, as Brock said before, most of the parts for a CRX will fit your car.

Here is a link to a website where the guy knows his ISH about 4G hondas. It has a lot of tech articles as well as fitting Del Sol seats into your car (very nice). Hope you find this helpful!!! Good luck.

[maxpsi]

Theres no reason to go B series if you dont want crazy ass hp. I suggest a D series with dual webber carbs. 8) www.exospeed.com has all the fresh D series go fast stuff. Plus it would be fun to build the motor and cheaper too,and you can get as much power NA as a b series, almost. IF it blows, you can get another one dirt cheap.

Thats what i would do anyway. :wink:

Tien has good coilovers for about 1k.

Another very good option, Clint.

[ActiveAero]

Clint has a very good suggestion. If it is going to be a track/beater you might want to look into a d-series. I also believe they bolt straight in with no need for mount kits. You can do alot of swapping between the D series engines and can make you car pretty quick and you can get the engines for $500-$700.

Suspension is all up to you. I know some guys that run 1000lb springs on the street (yeah thats the same as real time).

Since you don't have to drive far I would go with something pretty aggressive, thats the whole purpose of having a street car and a track/beater. Some revalved Koni yellows with custom rate springs are hard to beat for the price.

I'll try to find some dyno comparison graphs if I can but if I remember correctly a B18B (non VTEC mind you) vs a B16A is pretty surprising. Basically the B18B craps on the B16A all the way until its redline at around 6,700rpm. The B16A just holds on for 1,500 more rpms and makes more power up there. For and auto-x/tight track car I'd go with the B18B. For the buck though the B16A is hard to beat.

[AccoRdINlySlo]

My turn on this one. First of all thats sweet that u actually got one. On the springs and all I would go wit the GC but with the Koni, but out of all things I would get the Koni's for shocks but that combo is a great setup. I don't know if it matters but Frank has the GC/Koni setup and his car rides like its on rails.

On the motor its up to you, like maxpsi said, you can do a lot to that motor and all,also since it is cheap. Actually my buddy has a 99 SI(b16) for sale right now. Has everything you need and if I'm correct has bout 60,000 miles on it. I forgot about a price but said that he would work out a deal if you will get them to install it too. The b16 would be a great start depending on what you wanna do to it. If you wanna go the turbo route, let me know, we get good deals on that too. Also we get good deals on all motor things too so just let me know.

[Frosty_DUB]

Dude if you look hard enough you can get a d series for like 200.

[AU RSX-S]

Dude if you look hard enough you can get a d series for like 200.

Don't be gay.

[1.8t]

own3d

[maxpsi]

Dude if you look hard enough you can get a d series oil cap for like 200 cents.

[Matt Harris]

If you plan on making it a track car you might want to look into a little beefier suspension setup. If you are just looking for a good better than stock setup to have some fun with however that setup is great.

Also you might want to keep the smaller rims. Cheaper to keep a good set of tires on.

First off, you know Ground Control makes coilovers that are race spec, you can have a variety of spring rates.

Also, other than stock honda wheels there's not a very wide spelection of 14's available. And, buying performance tires for 14" wheels seems to be becoming increasingly difficult.

I think i'm pretty set on doing a fairly stiff race spec ground control coilover with the KYB AGX shocks, which seem to be the best bang for the buck. Probably go with a set of suspension techniques swaybars as well. Should be able to get all this in the 700-750 price range thanks to shop discounts and knowing the right folks, etc.

[maxpsi]

[quote=ActiveAero]Also, other than stock honda wheels there's not a very wide spelection of 14's available. And, buying performance tires for 14" wheels seems to be becoming increasingly difficult.

Yup. I had 14" steelies. Honda likes making heavy, narrow 14inchers. So, I changed to a lightweight, 15 inch aftermarket wheel. But, aren't you on a budget? :?

[Matt Harris]

Who isn't on a budget?

Doesn't mean i'm not going to get wheels, just means i'm not going to pay much for them. :)

Thinking I may get Kosei K1's with either Falken Azenis or Kumho MX's in a couple of months.

[maxpsi]

Go here www.groupbuycenter.com for anything. I found 5 sets of lightweight wheels and some Azenis for sale. They have tons of other stuff you can search for also. It is hard to beat prices from this website.

[Frosty_DUB]

i got my rotas from www.machiii.net

[ActiveAero]

If you plan on making it a track car you might want to look into a little beefier suspension setup. If you are just looking for a good better than stock setup to have some fun with however that setup is great.

Also you might want to keep the smaller rims. Cheaper to keep a good set of tires on.

First off, you know Ground Control makes coilovers that are race spec, you can have a variety of spring rates.

Also, other than stock honda wheels there's not a very wide spelection of 14's available. And, buying performance tires for 14" wheels seems to be becoming increasingly difficult.

I think i'm pretty set on doing a fairly stiff race spec ground control coilover with the KYB AGX shocks, which seem to be the best bang for the buck. Probably go with a set of suspension techniques swaybars as well. Should be able to get all this in the 700-750 price range thanks to shop discounts and knowing the right folks, etc.

What we are saying is you will want different shocks. AGX's just aren't made for really high spring rates. You will at least want Koni yellows if not revalved Koni's. I'm not sure of the price difference between the two (normal vs revalved). Wiggie has been looking into them for his car so maybe he can fill you in better.

I suggest tracking the car with the suspension bone stock at first. Find out what you like and don't like about its balance. Of course it might sag and sway like a beast but its balance can still be reasonbably obtained (how it reacts under different corner/braking conditions). You might think it is going to plow like a beast, stiffen up the rear too much, then track it and have the back end stepping out every time you lift throttle or trail brake.

[Matt Harris]

I can already tell you it plows like a beast. Just ask Greyson. :D

Now that i'm not going to be leaving the country this weekend I may just go up to the autocross in birmingham.

Anybody else interested?

[AccoRdINlySlo]

For 700-750 you can get the GC with the Koni's. Don't get me wrong but KYB's are good but Koni's are bettter. Both of my bros has them on thier car and rides so much better then mines, that shows you how good Koni's are. U should be able to get the GC and Koni's tho for around 700.
If I was you, I would at least get sum 16's, thats just me tho.
O yea on the motor, 2500$ I think but I'm pretty sure thats the price.

[Matt Harris]

I have Koni's on my Audi, so I know how good they are. They're just more expensive than the KYB's, which may well be the 'next best thing'. I can get the GC's and KYB's for 600, maybe less. Every little bit counts.

As far as 16's, no way in hell. That would just be plain dumb for this car. It's not a show car.

That's crazy money for a B16A. Besides, I already know someone who can get me a motor/tranny/custom axles/hasport motor mounts and linkages/etc/etc for less than 2K.

[WiggiE]

For $700 as far as springs and shocks go is going to push you to get off-the-shelf setups. Honestly you aren't going to be happy with them on basically a race car.

Custom rate GC's run ~$300. You could always pick up a good set of used ones for less, then just buy the Eibach ERS springs that you want. Also, keep in mind that you need to know which shocks you are going to be using the GS's with, b/c GC's attach differently to different shocks. (IE they have Koni specific ones). If it were up to me, I'd look for springs around the 500lbs area. Keep them within a 100 lbs of each other. Hardcore Honda racers run higher spring rates in the rear to assist in the rotation. So my suggestion for you, for now, would be 500/550 F/R.

Shocks..... KYB AGX's are very good budget shocks but they cannot successfully dampen 500lb springs on your light car. They are not valved aggressively enough. Also, their adjustability is very limited. Just b/c it says 8 levels, it's total range is small. My first choice for shocks for your setup would be Koni Yellows. They will be able to handle that rate, but it will be on the upper limits of them. You can always look into revavling them, which they can do for you at the factory. I would not suggest getting them revavled anywere else as this will void the lifetime warranty of them. Koni is very good at working with it's customers on their specific needs. The next shock I would suggest is the Bilsteins. I can't remember if it's the HD's or the Sports's, but go with the more aggressively vavled ones. They are non-adjustable that can be made adjustable, but they are very competive none-the-less.

Brakes...The Integra upgrade on your car will work very well. Just make sure to get the MC to match it. Oh, and on an old car like that I would suggest replacing the brake lines. For pads and rotors, I would go to http://www.cobaltfriction.com/ He is the most knowledgable person I have ever talked to about brakes, even more so than the reps at Stoptech. Explain to him your driving and he'll help you pick out a very good pad/rotor/fluid setup. Don't forget to tell him your coming from Honda-Tech, so you can get that 10% off.

Like everyone else said, look into getting a B18B for it's cost/power ratio as well as having a fat torque band for pulling out of those low speed auto-x corners. A B16 would do very well though too. Save the extra money here, and put it in the suspension, tires, and brakes.

Tires... skip over everything else and run Azenis. There is no other option for traction to price ratio.

In a Honda, going fast is mostly tires, suspension, and brakes. They will never be straight line cars but can make up for that in the handline.

[ActiveAero]

I'm also going to say that you need to go ahead and spend more on the suspension. You already have a nice car to make long trips in. Don't wuss out on your TRACK CAR.

I say forget the B16 or the B18. Just keep it stock for now until you blow it. When you do just swap in a D16 for a few hundred. You can make a junk yard D16 that will haul pretty darn good in a hatch for super cheap. There are swaps called mini-me's were you take the head from one and swap to another to bump compression on up there (around 11.5 if I'm not mistaken). You can also swap on a SOHC VTEC head. There are also manifold swaps and the like. For now I say save the money and use it on the good stuff (suspension and brakes). You don't need a fast beater (for now) when you already have a Stage III A4.

I say this from slight expeience but I really urge you to track the car a good bit BONE STOCK. Get a real good feel for what you want out of it. I remember back in the day before I had tracked my car. I had got use to my R's stock suspension and was thinking I could use something a little stiffer , so naturally I started looking into some setups. Then I actually tracked my car and realized that the stock setup kicks some major butt and is still better than its driver. Before autocrossing the car I had no real idea how it reacted so throwing on some suspension would have been stupid and half guessed. Heck I still am not sure what I want to change about the stock setup because I haven't extracted the maximum out of it yet. What I'm basically saying is putting on some good spring shock combo without tracking it stock is a shot in the dark and gives you nothing to compare it too. Just general advice that I'm sure you are aware of.


Here would be my mod list.

1. Integra brakes, new lines, MC, good pads, and fluid. Contact www.cobaltfriction.com. There isn't a company better when it comes to brakes. There brake fluid formula's are used in F1 is that tells you anything. Ask for Andy.

2. Set of Falken Azenis.

3. Autopower or Kirk 4 point roll bar and a good harness setup.

That would be it for now. Then I'd just track the crap out of it and learn. No need in wasting money.

[Matt Harris]

Looks like i'm going to B-Ham this weekend to run her.

Here's my mod list for now, in order of importance:

1.) suspension

2.) tires (with wheels because I have to upsize to fit brakes)

3.) 'teg brakes

I'm also going to strip her out and I was thinking for the sake of simplicity just welding in a rear strut tower brace.

The swap is not going to occur until the winter (at the earliest). And part of the deal when I bought it is that i'm giving the guy the motor back when I do the swap, so I got a better price.

But I will be driving it with a completely stock drivetrain for the time being, either until something blows or I stockpile a lot of cash to do all the fun go-fast stuff. I don't see any point in doing any performance bolt-ons to this motor.

[quattro]

I can already tell you it plows like a beast. Just ask Greyson. :D

Now that i'm not going to be leaving the country this weekend I may just go up to the autocross in birmingham.

Anybody else interested?

The a few fsae guys will be in bham for SCCA.


The car sounds like it's gonna be alot of fun, although I'm not sure it will attract the women like the Audi... :wink:

[AccoRdINlySlo]

Didn't mean to say get the 16's for show purposes. I just thought it would look a lil better and also have a bigger sidewall for contact and all.
Also on the motor, thats a reallie good price man, don't pass that up. Just have fun with the install and all....hehe :wink:

[Jess]

Didn't mean to say get the 16's for show purposes. I just thought it would look a lil better and also have a bigger sidewall for contact and all.
Also on the motor, thats a reallie good price man, don't pass that up. Just have fun with the install and all....hehe :wink:

if he was goin for looks, he wouldnt have gotten a lunchbox :wink: :lol:

[Matt Harris]

Didn't mean to say get the 16's for show purposes. I just thought it would look a lil better and also have a bigger sidewall for contact and all.
Also on the motor, thats a reallie good price man, don't pass that up. Just have fun with the install and all....hehe :wink:

if he was goin for looks, he wouldnt have gotten a lunchbox :wink: :lol:

Exactly. :D

I've got the Audi for looks.

And as far as 16's for sidewall, they would have less sidewall not more, and the contact patch is related to the width of the wheel not the diameter. On this car, with the overall diameter of the wheels and tires, the sidewall will be relatively minimal with just 15's. Plus you have a big weight penalty, tires are more expensive, yada yada...Personally I think 15's look better on this car.

[AccoRdINlySlo]

Wateva floats ur boat, just giving my thoughts on things.