Question for the APR Guys

[Contour_SeVT]

So I just ran into the thread on VWvortex about the Stage III price increase and didnt want to read all 8 pages to find out the exact amount but I was just wondering how much of a price increase there in going to be. Doesnt really change the fact that I want one, just wondering how much more I am going to have to add to what I'm saving....

[Matt Harris]

The decision hasn't been made yet.

[Contour_SeVT]

Cool, I was just currious.

[AU RSX-S]

The decision hasn't been made yet.

I am not optimistic about the decision. :wink: :D

[1.8t]

Of course Cameron isn't optimistic about he decision, he was just about to stg.3 his RSX :lol: :wink: . Depending on how much it goes up, I will look into other options or just stay with the stock turbo. $4k was a lot of cash, but it is just too much of a financial burden that I can't justify if it rises near $5k. I wish a company would come out that could program as good as APR, but would build a kit around a T3/T4E, ordinary iron manifold, etc. That turbo has been around a million years and while not as new and techincally adavanced, I could put up with some extra lag...especially for the power advantage. However, I know APRs style, so that ain't going to happen. Just thinking out loud.

[Frosty_DUB]

a t78 kit for a mk4 supra costs around 4k, and im sure the apr kit isnt as nice as anything produced by hks. They are just one of the few mfg's to make a kit for that croud, so they can charge as much as they want. Maybe less than 500 is ok, but 1k more is retarded. Maybe with a FMIC.

[Matt Harris]

Clint, you only say that obviously because you are unfamiliar with the components offered in our kit. The profit margin, particularly on the transverese kit, is very low. All the parts are top notch, and there are a number of custom cast parts and hoses, as well as an inconel manifold, which is very pricy on its own.

And Michael, the fact that we don't have a t3/t4e kit at this point is not simply because of our style, but really because we don't have time to develop anything like that. And if the engineering time was spent on that it would most likely be applied to transverse cars first simply because that's where the money is.

[WiggiE]

Why doesn't APR make cast mani's? It would be an easier way to lower the cost. They could always make the inconels as well, but give everyone a choice.

[AU RSX-S]

The decision hasn't been made yet.

I am not optimistic about the decision. :wink: :D

I still don't know why in the hell I said that. :lol:

[Matt Harris]

Why doesn't APR make cast mani's? It would be an easier way to lower the cost. They could always make the inconels as well, but give everyone a choice.

Our inconel manifolds are cast.

There has been some thought given to making stainless manifolds as well, assuming that's what you meant to say. There is also a lower grade of inconel type material which we could use. So far the decision has not been made to do that, however, and it's not my place to make it.

[Contour_SeVT]

Why doesn't APR make cast mani's?

I would wager to say that they dont because it would lower the overall impression of APR's quality as a whole. ATP make a "similar," which I use VERY loosly, kit with cast parts and they are pretty widely known for making cheaper more problematic and damage prone stuff.

[Frosty_DUB]

What about cast iron manifolds? What are the drawbacks?

[A418t81]

and im sure the apr kit isnt as nice as anything produced by hks.


Ignorance is bliss...

[Frosty_DUB]

Think i just caught a whiff of audi snobbery. :lol: :P

[A418t81]

Think i just caught a whiff of audi snobbery. :lol: :P

Umm, no......you just got a whiff of if the HKS "kits" are anything like the other turbo kits I've seen for Japanese vehicles, then the APR one will blow them out of the damn water. This has nothing to do with my ties to APR or the fact that I have the kit. The fact is that a random turbo out of a parts bin along with a couple sections of pipe and a few silicon connectors does not constitute what I would consider a kit.

Yay, HKS is an engineering house for garrett, guess who else is also...


Yah, HKS can have "custom" turbos made, guess who else can...

Yay, HKS makes rice rockets, guess who makes kraut rockets..

Wow, HKS gives you a turbo, mani,some chromed pipe, and a downpipe for 4k for your supra. APR gives you a GT turbo, fully custom, cast and powercoated intake with a spun 3" maf housing, 3" downpipe, motor mounts, fuel pump, custom samco hoses, inconel mani, $500 injectors, etc, etc, etc.....AND comes FULLY tuned out of the box using the stock EMS with multiple programs for multiple octanes as well as theft protection and fault code erase.


The fact of the matter is that you are talking out of your ass when you've probably never EVEN seen one of the respective kits.

[CPMaverick]

I haven't seen much HKS stuff, but its not the typical Japenese turbo kit, the shit I've seen was very top notch. I can't say I know enough to compare them to APR (also top notch), but if you are just assuming HKS is like 'other' kits you've seen, your previous post applies to you as well. :wink:

[A418t81]

I haven't seen much HKS stuff, but its not the typical Japenese turbo kit, the shit I've seen was very top notch. I can't say I know enough to compare them to APR (also top notch), but if you are just assuming HKS is like 'other' kits you've seen, your previous post applies to you as well. :wink:

I"ve seen some of the Kits that HKS has at their booths in the congress center at different events in Atl. They are definitely very high quality and I wasn't saying that the APR kit was better or worse. Only that the VAG tuning scene is much different than the japanese scene and the hardware looks to be comparable at the very least.

[CPMaverick]

I"ve seen some of the Kits that HKS has at their booths in the congress center at different events in Atl. They are definitely very high quality and I wasn't saying that the APR kit was better or worse.

:?: I thought you said the APR kit would 'blow them out of the water' ? Were you talking about performance or what, because I thought you were talking quality.

[ActiveAero]

First let me say this. APR apparently makes some really high quality stuff and is great for the consumer that wants driveability/reliability over performance.

However that said, spending over $4,000 on a car that is already turbocharged from the factory is pushing it IMO for the results the kits obtain. As strong as the 1.8t blocks are it seems APR tunes too conservatively (from what you guys tell me) on their kits. Is there something else that limits what power they can safely achieve with the kit (tranny maybe)?

[WiggiE]

Is there something else that limits what power they can safely achieve with the kit (tranny maybe)?
It's the clutches, y0!

[Matt Harris]

There's nothing conservative about APR's programming. It's the turbo that is conservative. The decision was made to go with a relatively small turbo to enhance driveability. When the kit was first created, with Audi guys in mind, they thought there would be a bigger market for this than some gigantic lag-monster turbo. And they were probably right, overall. But obviously at this point in the game there are guys who are ready for more, particularly the VW guys in their lightweight FWD cars.

[A418t81]

I"ve seen some of the Kits that HKS has at their booths in the congress center at different events in Atl. They are definitely very high quality and I wasn't saying that the APR kit was better or worse.

:?: I thought you said the APR kit would 'blow them out of the water' ? Were you talking about performance or what, because I thought you were talking quality.


I was talking about the complete "kit" at 4k with the supra kit as a reference. For 4k on vag cars, you get the complete hardware, fueling necessary, and tuning associated. For 4k on the supra kit, you get the hardware.

[Frosty_DUB]

I"ve seen some of the Kits that HKS has at their booths in the congress center at different events in Atl. They are definitely very high quality and I wasn't saying that the APR kit was better or worse.

:?: I thought you said the APR kit would 'blow them out of the water' ? Were you talking about performance or what, because I thought you were talking quality.


I was talking about the complete "kit" at 4k with the supra kit as a reference. For 4k on vag cars, you get the complete hardware, fueling necessary, and tuning associated. For 4k on the supra kit, you get the hardware.

Thats the nice thing about supras, you dont need extra fuel unless you want to run low 10's. :lol:

[A418t81]

I"ve seen some of the Kits that HKS has at their booths in the congress center at different events in Atl. They are definitely very high quality and I wasn't saying that the APR kit was better or worse.

:?: I thought you said the APR kit would 'blow them out of the water' ? Were you talking about performance or what, because I thought you were talking quality.


I was talking about the complete "kit" at 4k with the supra kit as a reference. For 4k on vag cars, you get the complete hardware, fueling necessary, and tuning associated. For 4k on the supra kit, you get the hardware.

Thats the nice thing about supras, you dont need extra fuel unless you want to run low 10's. :lol:

This is true 8)

[Big Don]

I'll worry about a stage 3 and whatever it happens to cost later. I am still just trying to tuck away the extra cash for a chip.

[insert_car]

I'll worry about a stage 3 and whatever it happens to cost later. I am still just trying to tuck away the extra cash for a chip.

nooooo doubt!

[AU RSX-S]

I'll worry about a stage 3 and whatever it happens to cost later. I am still just trying to tuck away the extra cash for a chip.

Audi/ VW?

[Big Don]

Yeah, I'm the guy with the blue 2k2 jetta, I believe you wanted to race me before I left for the summer but I had 600 extra pounds of luggage.

[AU RSX-S]

Yeah, I'm the guy with the blue 2k2 jetta, I believe you wanted to race me before I left for the summer but I had 600 extra pounds of luggage.

Don't remember. Whenever you're ready I am! :D :lol:

[Frosty_DUB]

Yea man i remember you, I started pulling on you on the high way up till 4th and then you walked the shit outta me. hehe.

[KrautFed]

particularly the VW guys in their lightweight FWD cars.

That's why I always pick The Princess in Super Mario Kart for Super Nintendo. :lol:

Seriously: The APR kit is nice no doubt, but like he said, the VW crowd is ready to move on. I personally will not spend $4K to make a 1.8T go from 215ish WHP to 275ish WHP. The 1.8T is far more advanced than a need for a GT28.

I am Stage 5-ing my Rabbit. :lol: ...so no need to focus on the 1.8T. But if/when APR gets ready to produce a high HP kit... contact me. I have a slight foot in the doorway of the 1.8T community. :wink:

[Matt Harris]

You'll see what APR is capable of in just a matter of weeks. :D

Now as to how close it will be to something we might actually produce?...Who knows? :P

BTW, is that a pic of your Rabbit in the sig? If so, very clean. I looked into getting one for a track/project car to do a 1.8 swap on, but ended up going with the civic because of the simplicity and cost. (and the desire to have my second car be NA, at least for the time being. :wink: )

Oh yeah, and the chick in your sig is pretty hot too. :D

[insert_car]

yeah his rabbit is sweet!!! i haven't seen it in person but the pics look mint! have you decided on a color yet?

[KrautFed]

HAHA, fellas-fellas... thats not my Rabbit. It's actually a guy's named Dave Graf. It is the look that I had wanted for so long, and then I find some killer pictures of Dave's Rabbit online (Vortex to be exact). It was the look I wanted, but now I don't want another silver car, and the Schmidt wheels are getting played hard on MKI's. I probably won't decide on wheels until right before I get them... so I can be different from everyone else. They will be Euro though.

Here is the full size pic of Dave's Rabbit. Also Checkout the full story on his car. (http://www.vwvortex.com/features/02_01/02_21/index.shtml)

http://www.vwvortex.com/features/02_01/02_21/intro.jpg

___________________________________________________________
BTW - THIS is my Rabbit... and a long way to go. :lol:


http://www.hostdub.com/albums/KrautFed/RabbitExterior2.jpg

[KrautFed]

You'll see what APR is capable of in just a matter of weeks. :D

Tell dem APR boys to "show me sum'm". :lol:

[Big Don]

Tell them APR boys to help a broke brutha out!

[AU RSX-S]

Tell them APR boys to help a broke brutha out!

Are those your only mods in your sig?

[Big Don]

Broke means broke. I am working right now pay off my credit cards from last year and putting back enough money to try and not go flat broke this year too.