4 Hour Body

[Veedubtrek]

Anyone read it yet?

I'm about to start the PAGG stack and I'm curious if anyone (specifically those with a medical background *hint* *hint*) has any useful info on it. The alleged result of each component is listed in the book as well as various sites, but I'm more interested in how each supplement achieves the result.

For example, Alpha-Lipoic Acid supposedly causes the body to store carbs/energy in the muscle and liver cells vs fat cells. Great, but how/why does it do that?

[Swine]

Bro, it works. Trust me bro.

[Veedubtrek]

Bro, we need more belts.

[EM2guy]

I've got a copy its pretty interesting... haven't tried the stack yet but the ice bath therapy helps and the diet/kettle bells is good info

[Veedubtrek]

I've started the slow carb diet and taking cold showers in the morning and after my workouts. I was amazed how quickly I got used to the cold showers. I haven't attempted the ice baths yet but I'm sure I'll give it a shot at some point.

[TylerW]

So how exactly is a cold shower supposed to help in your diet/workout regimen? Sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me. Then again I haven't heard of this "4 hour body" to begin with.

[Veedubtrek]

Without trying to quote the book, this article gives a good synopsis

http://augusteo.com/2010/12/20/how-cold-showers-can-make-you-healthier-and-slimmer/

Your body goes into overdrive burning calories to try and maintain 98.6 degrees... the colder it is, the harder your body has to work. Well, up until it shuts down, obviously.

I'm sure a lot of what he says might come across as BS at a surface level, but most of everything in the book he has done himself and measured the results. It's up to the reader to pick and choose what he or she wants to believe, but you can't knock it till you try it ;)

[Swine]

I'm sure a lot of what he says might come across as BS at a surface level, but most of everything in the book he has done himself and measured the results. It's up to the reader to pick and choose what he or she wants to believe, but you can't knock it till you try it ;)

....

In all honesty, why wouldn't a cold shower help. The further your body is outside of its natural temperature element the hard its has to work to maintain its core temp. More work=more calories burned right?

Now my natural thought process is that cold condition would cause your body to burn and covert food energy quicker, since the simple act of that work creates more heat...conversely i would think a hot condition would cause metabolism and food to energy production to slow some as to not create to much heat and focus the majority of work on sweating.

Shooting from the hip here so i could be wrong.

[Veedubtrek]

Now my natural thought process is that cold condition would cause your body to burn and covert food energy quicker, since the simple act of that work creates more heat...conversely i would think a hot condition would cause metabolism and food to energy production to slow some as to not create to much heat and focus the majority of work on sweating.
That's how I see it. Also, after working out, taking a cold shower supposedly brings your body's temperature back to normal quicker so it can focus on rest&repair of the damaged muscles.

[TylerW]

Well I'm not going to knock the program in its entirety since, as I admitted earlier, I have never heard of this system. But I'm skeptical as to how much of an effect a cold shower could actually have for pure weight loss. I would imagine the shower you take would have to be EXTREMELY cold before you noticed any gains, and a lot of climates will never be able to achieve the required temps, so I would recommend an ice bath instead.

Apparently a 2008 paper has addressed cold showers for weight loss. It can be found here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258415/

Some intriguing notes:

The increase in energy expenditure, 0.32 MJ/day (−0.20 to 1.66 MJ/day), is comparable to data from literature [9], [14], [15]. This increase is considerably smaller than the increase in energy expenditure observed in small mammals after cold exposure (two- to fourfold) [16]. However, a small difference in energy expenditure for a prolonged period might contribute largely to weight gain. A diminished adaptive thermogenesis has indeed been identified as a risk factor for obesity [17]. Therefore, our results indicate that mitochondrial uncoupling in human skeletal muscle may be a target for therapies to prevent obesity.

and

Acclimatization to cold is known to have large effects on adaptive thermogenesis. Subjects regularly exposed to mild cold have a higher adaptive thermogenesis capacity [12]. This could be of benefit in situations of overfeeding, since cold-induced adaptive thermogenesis is related to overfeeding induced adaptive thermogenesis, as we have shown recently [23]. Therefore, the results indicate that regular cold exposure might be beneficial in body weight regulation via an increase in the skeletal muscle uncoupling capacity.

According to research, cold exposure is a weight regulation technique, but there is currently no evidence to support cold exposure as a catalyst for weight loss. However, the research did link the process of mitochondrial uncoupling from cold exposure to weight loss, and made this comment:

In the past, drugs have been developed to treat obesity, for example 2,4-Dinitrophenol, without insight in the mechanisms behind. This drug, which has a major effect on the uncoupling of oxidative phosphorylation, turned out to be lethal due to hyperthermia and has been banned in 1938, but is still used in illegal circuits due to its marked effects on body weight [18]. The present study shows that skeletal muscle has the intrinsic capacity of regulated mitochondrial uncoupling. Research should aim to target this intrinsic uncoupling process in the mitochondrial membrane without disrupting the complete membrane as is the case with the use of 2,4-Dinitrophenol to increase thermogenesis and thus weight loss.

[Veedubtrek]

I'm not going to try and defend Tim Ferriss' position since he did the research not me, but what you've posted is interesting to note, I'll have to read that paper when I get a chance.

[EM2guy]

Also dont forget that if you are working out cold therapy reduces inflimation hence why football players and gymnists take ice baths after hard workouts. It alows them to continually train at a harder level. As opposed to hot soaks which actually increases inflimation and can cause you to be more sore.

[TylerW]

Also dont forget that if you are working out cold therapy reduces inflimation hence why football players and gymnists take ice baths after hard workouts. It alows them to continually train at a harder level. As opposed to hot soaks which actually increases inflimation and can cause you to be more sore.

Yeah I took a few ice baths during my fooseball days. They make the weewee small. :P

[A418t81]

I dont think taking cold showers is going to make much of a difference. As stated if you do it a while you may up regulate the uncoupling proteins in the motochondria. Basically what that means is that the biochemical cascade that occurs which pumps hydrogen protons outside the mitochondrias membrane setting up a gradient and allowing energy production is uncoupled allowing the release of energy as heat rather than making ATP. This occurs naturally in the body in stuff called brown fat. The brown pigment is due to a protein called thermogenin which is an uncoupler. Babies have the largest amount of the stuff.

I don't think you could up regulate enough natural uncoupling protreins to lose a substantial amount of weight.

[Veedubtrek]

I don't think you could up regulate enough natural uncoupling protreins to lose a substantial amount of weight.
I guess we'll find out ;) I've been taking the PAGG stack (policosanol, R-Alpha-lipoic acid, aged garlic extract, EGCG, Biotin) to help boost my metabolism and the burning of fat along with following a slow carb diet to minimize insulin spikes. On top of that I'm taking cold showers after I wake up and after my workouts as well as placing an ice pack on my neck/upper back to "jumpstart" the brown fat for 20-30 minutes 3 days a week.

I've been doing all of the above for about a week now and I'm impressed. The differences are subtle and they may be due to the cold exposure tightening my skin, but I saw a rapid increase in definition (much more than I have in working out with my personal trainer for 4 months). I'm excited to see how things go in the next 2 months.

Plus, I saw my buddy go from muscular-with-some-definition to ripped in about 6 weeks so I said fuck it, it can't hurt to try.

[I want something fast]

I am going to ask about this very interesting hypothesis at Crossfit today to see if anyone else has tried it out.

[Veedubtrek]

Had my bodyfat measured at the gym yesterday.

9.4% @ 185 lb

First time I've ever been in the "single digits" (hovered between 12-15% at 185 lb for the past year up until I started all this shit)

Aiming for 6% @ 190 lb by the end of summer so I can finally make some extra money as a stripper. My ego is going to be unstoppable. :pimp:

[TylerW]

Had my bodyfat measured at the gym yesterday.

9.4% @ 185 lb

First time I've ever been in the "single digits" (hovered between 12-15% at 185 lb for the past year up until I started all this shit)

Aiming for 6% @ 190 lb by the end of summer so I can finally make some extra money as a stripper. My ego is going to be unstoppable. :pimp:

You must have 50 lbs of cock in your pants because I don't see 185 anywhere on you. :p

[Veedubtrek]

Hahaha believe me, it's all in the height... No one sees 185 lb on me ;)

[EM2guy]

what is your current meal plan? I have the book just wondering how close to his exact diet ur doing and where you bought the supplements

[Veedubtrek]

I'll write something up a little more detailed once we leave vegas on monday but for the most part I follow this list

http://4hourpeople.com/question/369/slow-carb-foods-allowed-not-allowed

With one cheat day a week in which I binge like a motherfucker


I'm finishing this pagg stack http://www.paggsupplement.com/

and about to start on this one http://www.paggstack.com/

The latter supposedly follows Tim Ferriss' specifications more so we'll see if there's a difference.

[Veedubtrek]

So after 3 weeks of nonstop drunkenness, partying, and driving across the country I didn't gain a pound, and my buddy actually is in better shape than when we left (mainly because he went to the gym a couple times and stuck to his strict 200+ grams of daily protein intake).

Now that I've put my workouts in this week and my body has had a week to recover from that shit show of a trip I can say I'm also in better shape than when I left.

Except for the endless amount of alcohol we went through and our weekly cheat days my buddy and I stuck to the slow carb diet for the entire trip. I've never eaten so much canned chicken and refried beans in my life. Luckily NYC provided a nice (but expensive) break from that shit.

There are probably 3 or 4 pounds of fat left around my lower abdomen before my stomach is completely flat. Going back to my regular drinking schedule and getting back to the gym I'm aiming for a month before it's gone.

[Veedubtrek]

what is your current meal plan? I have the book just wondering how close to his exact diet ur doing and where you bought the supplements
So to answer the meal plan question, for the past 2 months (barring my 3 week road trip which consisted mostly of canned chicken, refried beans, lentils, and chicken chili) I've been eating everything below.

Most mornings I have either of the following
4 eggs fried or scrambled in 2 tb of butter
Half a can of refried beans
Half an avocado
Maybe a couple slices of turkey bacon (regular bacon is fine too as long as it's organic)
30g Whey protein shake
(use herbs and spices where you see fit)

Slice of onion sauteed in 1 tb of butter
6 slices turkey bacon
Four heaping spoonfuls of sauerkraut thrown in with the onion and bacon with another 2 tb of butter
Half an avocado
A ton of veggies (microwaved)
30g Whey protein shake
(use herbs and spices where you see fit)


For lunch I usually cook one of following on Sunday and eat it all week
http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/african-chicken-stew/detail.aspx
I replace the garbanzo beans with freshly soaked and cooked kidney beans and blackeyed peas
Instead of a potato I use extra beans, celery, and carrots

Any beef stew recipe
Just avoid putting potatos or any starchy vegetable in it

A few times I've bought an 18-pack of drumsticks, thrown them in a crockpot with a shit ton of BBQ sauce (watch the amount of sugar in BBQ sauce though) and called it a day. That shit will fall off the bone when you stick a fork in it.
(Same thing applies to baby back ribs or a pork shoulder for pulled pork)

If I eat out I usually go for Mexican as it is the EASIEST type of food to follow the slow carb diet with (look up the Chipotle diet). Order extra beans in place of the rice. Extra guacamole. Salsa fresca/pico de gallo. I love Mexican and the Mexican in California is amazing so it works out perfectly.

A huge package of spinach. I just stuff it down my throat with a small amount of dressing and some nuts.


For dinner
Grilled tilapia (1 tb of butter per filet), chicken or steak (shit ton of garlic)
A ton of veggies (microwaved or grilled, with 2-3 tb of butter and some pepper)


Additional
I have a can of mixed nuts at my desk at all times. I probably eat 20-30 nuts a day (insert homo joke here). I'm a big fan of Brazil nuts per the reasons Tim discusses... I try not to eat too many though because of the possibility of over doing the selenium.

Right before bed
30g Casein protein shake
1 liter of water

About 2-3am I wake up to take a piss
30g Casein protein shake
Back to bed

With the veggies I like to buy one of those big packs of mixed veggies (cauliflower, broccoli, carrots) and wrap them in some aluminum foil with a couple slices of onion and 2-3 tb of butter, maybe some garlic and some pepper. Then I throw them on the grill. If I'm microwaving them I just put everything in a bowl with a little bit of water.

Soaking and cooking beans yourself is much cheaper and healthier than buying them canned. I usually buy a "15 Bean Soup" bag and follow the soaking/boiling directions and throw them in a tupperware container so I can just microwave them and throw them on whatever I'm making (the chicken stew, soups, breakfast, etc...)


Supplements
Opti-men Multi 3x daily
Calcium, Magnesium, Zinc with Vit D Supplement 3x daily
PAGG Stack


Cheat Days
Free for all... I eat anything and everything, but my staple is oreos and a gallon of whole milk.

I do take some of the damage control precautions Tim discusses though... air squats, wall presses, ice packs, etc...

[Swine]

A huge package. I just stuff it down my throat with some nuts.



:O

[Veedubtrek]

well-played, sir... well-fucking-played ;)

[TylerW]

:O

I see what you did there...

[Jess]

I'm a nutrition noob. Whats with all the butter?

[Veedubtrek]

I'm a nutrition noob. Whats with all the butter?
Due to the lack of fruit, most dressings, sauces, and dairy products food can get pretty dull and since butter falls under the "allowed" column for the slow carb diet I take advantage of it. Plus saturated fat is good for building muscle. Olive oil, grapeseed oil, and macadamia oil are acceptable too, just more expensive (that and I haven't actually found macadamia oil anywhere). It will probably be the first thing to go once I plateau though because I do go through a lot of butter.

[EM2guy]

amazon. com NOW macadamia oil its like 12 bucks for 16 oz... but its well worth it. Tastes great and it handles heat much better than olive oil... try frying turkey bacon in it makes it almost better than real bacon

[Veedubtrek]

amazon. com NOW macadamia oil its like 12 bucks for 16 oz... but its well worth it. Tastes great and it handles heat much better than olive oil... try frying turkey bacon in it makes it almost better than real bacon
Score, ordering it today, thanks!

[Jess]

if you like nuts - http://www.nutsonline.com/ Best nuts you ever had in your mouth...and that's saying something.

[Veedubtrek]

Best nuts you ever had in your mouth...and that's saying something.
Hahahhahaha

[Veedubtrek]

After going the rest of June with little to no decrease in BF I switched focus to putting on some muscle before making attempt #2 to get to my 6% BF goal. On July 8 I started GOMAD, drinking a gallon of whole milk every day in addition to my normal diet. My daily caloric intake is probably around 4500-5000.

I've gained around 12 lb in 11 days. Since a good chunk of that is water weight I'll be keeping this up until I hit 215-220. After that I'll cut the milk out, go back to my strict slow carb diet, let the water weight and excess fat burn off for a month and then decide if I need to do it again.

[Veedubtrek]

Oh, and the best thing about this is I'm suffering none of the side effects normally referenced for consuming this much milk on a daily basis (ie bloating, diarrhea, gas, acne, sleepiness, and lowered appetite). I'd like to give credit to my dad for making me drink milk my entire childhood, but maybe it's just my genes. I'm definitely going to miss the milk when I go back to the slow carb diet.

[TylerW]

After going the rest of June with little to no decrease in BF I switched focus to putting on some muscle before making attempt #2 to get to my 6% BF goal. On July 8 I started GOMAD, drinking a gallon of whole milk every day in addition to my normal diet. My daily caloric intake is probably around 4500-5000.

I've gained around 12 lb in 11 days. Since a good chunk of that is water weight I'll be keeping this up until I hit 215-220. After that I'll cut the milk out, go back to my strict slow carb diet, let the water weight and excess fat burn off for a month and then decide if I need to do it again.

Interesting strategy. Most muscle-building diets I've seen throw out all but one serving of dairy per day.

I love milk too. If I go too long without cereal and milk I go through withdrawals!

[Swine]

been doing basic weight lifting on lunch breaks at work and various cardio activities 3-4 days a week post work and usually once a weekend. Down to 194 from 201, deadlifting and squats improving noticeable, bench and other areas improving but not as quickly or impressively as my legs and back(ive alway done some legs and back, but never to this extent). Cardio is improving as well, i run either a lap or 2 of a 1.4 mile trail thats pretty rough to run. I usually run atleast twice a week and bike once a week.

All round improvements, id like to be 185 doing 205 for a set of 10 on bench(currently for a set of 8), 275 for a set of 10 on squats and deadlift, running around a 7min mile for a 2 mile average. So far doing a couple miles in the 15:20 range, not great.

[Veedubtrek]

Interesting strategy. Most muscle-building diets I've seen throw out all but one serving of dairy per day.

I love milk too. If I go too long without cereal and milk I go through withdrawals!
I had never heard of it until I read the 4 Hour Body, but once I googled the shit out of it and found plenty of support behind the idea it made sense. Plenty of saturated fat for testosterone production, carbs for energy and insulin spikes, a good supply of casein protein and a ton of calories to get the body used to the increased caloric intake necessary to maintain the increased muscle mass after the milk is cut out.

[Veedubtrek]

been doing basic weight lifting on lunch breaks at work and various cardio activities 3-4 days a week post work and usually once a weekend. Down to 194 from 201, deadlifting and squats improving noticeable, bench and other areas improving but not as quickly or impressively as my legs and back(ive alway done some legs and back, but never to this extent). Cardio is improving as well, i run either a lap or 2 of a 1.4 mile trail thats pretty rough to run. I usually run atleast twice a week and bike once a week.

All round improvements, id like to be 185 doing 205 for a set of 10 on bench(currently for a set of 8), 275 for a set of 10 on squats and deadlift, running around a 7min mile for a 2 mile average. So far doing a couple miles in the 15:20 range, not great.
Have you fucked with kettlebell swings (http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2011/01/08/kettlebell-swing/) yet?

[TylerW]

So far doing a couple miles in the 15:20 range, not great.

That's impressive if you're truly doing two miles in that time. I might be able to squeeze that out in 16-17 minutes on a good day, and my body would hate me afterward.

[Jess]

I started running to work last week and about a third of the trip is up a 45 degree incline. I'm down to about 8 seconds for the whole trip but substantially longer if I stop in the kitchen for breakfast.

[Swine]

Jess, lol.

Tyler, ran a 5k when i was heavier but running more in auburn @ a 23:20.

Ive always thought of myself as slow.

[xamraci]

I run 11:40 mile and a halfs. And my two mile is ussually 17 minutes. Thats since I hurt my back though. I will see how things go once I get better...

no working out or running for another three months. Just the rock wall a couple days a week to stay loose.

[TylerW]

Jess, lol.

Tyler, ran a 5k when i was heavier but running more in auburn @ a 23:20.

Ive always thought of myself as slow.

Slow is relative. :D I would be elated with a 23-minute 5k. I can only keep an 8:00 mile pace for so long.

[EM2guy]

my last posted 5k time was 22:21 Im hoping to be sub 20 by the end of the year... If I can ever find time to train between work and school

[Swine]

my last posted 5k time was 22:21 Im hoping to be sub 20 by the end of the year... If I can ever find time to train between work and school

I have no interest in ever doing a sub 20 5k lol. That is legitmately fast. I would like to be in the 21-22 range, but the 23:20 was already everything i had.

Short term running goal is to be in the low 14 min range on my 2 mile loop. Still have a good couple weeks before i can make an attempt on that. Would be nice if i was 185 like i used to be.

[1.8t]

I have never run a 5k, but I have run a 18:33 - 3 mile as a PR in college. I did it at the AU track, so it is as legit as you can be without actual timing equipment. That pace should have landed me sub 20min for a 5k.

I am just now starting to get to a point where I can hold a somewhat decent pace. I had gained so much weight and stopped cardio all toegether, so it has been a hard road back to where I am at right now and will continue to be hard to "get back" so to speak. However, all the hard work is paying off as my cardio conditioning is showing serious improvement and the weightloss is only helping me pick up more speed and distance.

[EM2guy]

I am going to ramp up my training next month... if anyone is interested in running shoot me a msg. I am getting for the tough mudder so I have to get up to 11 miles

[Veedubtrek]

lol @ Jess x2

17 days on GOMAD: I've gone from 185 to 205... 10 pounds or 1.5 weeks to go, whichever comes first ;)

[Veedubtrek]

I stopped GOMAD friday at 21 days and 22 lb gained... my clothes were getting a little too tight and I figured 22 lb wasn't bad for a first run. Over the weekend I dropped 5 lb to 202 (probably just water weight) so we'll see how much more comes off in the next few weeks. Now that I've switched from 5000 to my normal 2500 cal diet my body constantly feels like it's starving, and I'm craving milk with everything.

[Veedubtrek]

Dropped 7 more pounds after a couple days and then stopped losing weight at 195. After a couple weeks I'm back up to 200, but my pants are more loose at 200 than they were at 195 and my shirts are tighter around the chest and shoulders.

+1 point for body recomposition

[IronMonkey]

so i gained about 12lbs in the past month from eating crap and drinking.... i have been working out hard and eating right for the past 2 weeks....i havent seen a single change in weight. ideas?