Apex'i SAFC

[Mitsubeatshi]

Hey, I'm looking to get the Apex'i Super Air Flow Converter and was wondering if anyone out there has ahd any experience with them. Are they worth the money?

[Frosty_DUB]

my friend is gonna run one on his 500whp supra. I guess they are.

[WiggiE]

Depends on what you are using it on. Remember piggy-backs are only band-aids.

BTW, those SAFC II's look ill.

[AadosX]

I thought it was Super Air Fuel Controller? Hrmm... I guess I was wrong.

[Jess]

Nope, its controller. I run an S-AFC II. If you're cheap, just get a regular ol S-AFC. The II isnt that much better

[AadosX]

Yeah, so that's one... but is it Air Fuel (like I said) or Air Flow (him)?

[WiggiE]

Mitsubeatshi is correct. It is "Super Air Flow Converter".


Link to the SAFC manual on Apexi's website:
http://www.apexi-usa.com/productdocumentation/electronics_safc_ins.pdf

[Jess]

yep, it doesnt directly have anything to do with fuel. It only really works with air. The reason you can richen/lean with it is because the ECU is fooled by the SAFC and reacts by either adding or removing fuel.

[AadosX]

Ah ok, good info, thanks guys.

[CPMaverick]

Jess is wrong-

Those things are fuckin magic, and don't let anyone tell you different.

:shock:

[cheappower82]

S-AFCII saved my @ss at the dyno. I gained ~30 RWHP and ~40 RWTQ from tuning with the piggy-back. Not as nice as a standalone, but much more user friendly and cheaper. Ebay <$300 shipped

[eSpyder99]

Hey, I'm looking to get the Apex'i Super Air Flow Converter and was wondering if anyone out there has ahd any experience with them. Are they worth the money?

There was a guy at the meeting last night that was trying to sell his... and a bunch of other turbo accesories off of his 2g eclipse. Not sure how to get a hold of him but he might be at the meeting next week, I think OB knows how to get a hold of him so maybe you could go that route.

[1.8t]

yesh

[ActiveAero]

Mine was all right. It does fine at taking away fuel but sucks at adding it. It is also inconsistent since all it is going is tricking you air flow sensor by changing the voltage it recieves. I could do back to back runs with the same settings and my AF would jump all over the place. It would still be in the general area, but not near as precise as I would like.

I'd go standalone. Spend the money now and save headaches later.

[A418t81]

Mine was all right. It does fine at taking away fuel but sucks at adding it. It is also inconsistent since all it is going is tricking you air flow sensor by changing the voltage it recieves. I could do back to back runs with the same settings and my AF would jump all over the place. It would still be in the general area, but not near as precise as I would like.

I'd go standalone. Spend the money now and save headaches later.

You can't add well b/c you have one of them Honduhs that doesn't like to see anything resembling positive pressure ;)

[Jess]

I dont get it, why cant you add well with it. Doesnt it just change the MAP voltage to the ECU? Shouldnt that be basically the same as more air coming in?

[Mitsubeatshi]

Exactly, some people just don't know how to use it though,

[A418t81]

I dont get it, why cant you add well with it. Doesnt it just change the MAP voltage to the ECU? Shouldnt that be basically the same as more air coming in?

Because when you are at WOT, the map is reading, for all intensive purposes, right at atmospheric pressure (no vac). So how exactly are you going to add fuel at WOT on a MAP based system that freaks out as soon as it sees something above 1 ATM? Keep in mind when you add fuel on a map system, you effectively increase the pressure the computer sees.

[ActiveAero]

I dont get it, why cant you add well with it. Doesnt it just change the MAP voltage to the ECU? Shouldnt that be basically the same as more air coming in?

Because when you are at WOT, the map is reading, for all intensive purposes, right at atmospheric pressure (no vac). So how exactly are you going to add fuel at WOT on a MAP based system that freaks out as soon as it sees something above 1 ATM? Keep in mind when you add fuel on a map system, you effectively increase the pressure the computer sees.

:P Get'm Greyson. I'm sure for other vehicles it could be fine. However it still doesn't do anything but play with fuel. With stand alone you get timing control along with a ton of other features.

[CPMaverick]

Well I think the idea is to add more fuel THEN get something like a AFC/SAFC/VAFC/KFC or whatever. :roll: :lol:

For example get some bigger injectors and then take fuel away where needed.

And it DOES change timing, timing maps are RPM and MAP based just like fuel maps are.

Still they are not too great a tuning tool since you really have no idea what your changes are doing because they are just telling your car to read a different place on a map with a shape you are clueless about...

[ActiveAero]

And it DOES change timing, timing maps are RPM and MAP based just like fuel maps are.



Really? I thought timing never changed and that I was still runing 14 degrees at WOT at 9,100 rpms. :P

Of course we all know the ECU will change the timing maps based on sensor input, but the VAFC DOESN'T let you control that independently, which is of course what we are talking about.

[Jess]

you maybe able to change timing, but not directly.

[CPMaverick]

You aren't doing shit directly, you are altering airflow numbers and the ECU will interpret that with different fuel AND timing values. Although timing doesn't change much.

You are definitely not directly doing anything with a piggyback, the ECU is still using the same map as always, you are just fooling it into moving to another point on the RPM vs. MAP tables, fuel AND timing. :roll:

[WiggiE]

And that is why everyone should go to carbs.

[CPMaverick]

Of course we all know the ECU will change the timing maps based on sensor input, but the VAFC DOESN'T let you control that independently, which is of course what we are talking about.

Yeah I'd be REAL interested to understand a bit better what 'of course' you are talking about. You change fuel by altering MAP values, which in turn has to effect the timing tables the same way, if it "DOESN'T" let you control timing 'independently' then it 'DOESN'T' let you control fuel 'independently' either because they are both effected the same way, buy the same sensor value alterations.

Damn I can't believe the gay-ass graphs on those things fooled so many people.....

[Jess]

Still they are not too great a tuning tool since you really have no idea what your changes are doing because they are just telling your car to read a different place on a map with a shape you are clueless about...

Well, when you're using it in conjunction with an in-car wideband like I'm doing its a good tuning tool for the money. Where's all this hostility coming from? I dont think anybody's contradicting what you've been saying. I think everybody knows that all it does is modify the MAP/MAF signal to the ECU.

[CPMaverick]

Yea I'm not saying they aren't worth buying, just that they have limited capabilities. Most of the ricers think they are adding '+40% fuel' with thier AFC and that always pisses me off :lol: because you can not tell how much you are really adding. I figured some of ya'll would know better.

[WiggiE]

who needs eletronic gizmo's when u can have carbs.......

[A418t81]

who needs eletronic gizmo's when u can have carbs.......

Who needs anything more than 2000 cc's when you have technology :P

[1 Bad 68]

V8+forced induction>I4+forced induction

[CPMaverick]

:lol:

Not sure where you are going with that Wiggie, if what someone has done to their car is the extent of their automotive knowledge, then you are really good at installing CAIs :lol: I never even mentioned carbs.

[WiggiE]

:lol:

Not sure where you are going with that Wiggie, if what someone has done to their car is the extent of their automotive knowledge, then you are really good at installing CAIs :lol: I never even mentioned carbs.
No where :lol: Just like my post where I told the guy to weld the seat directly to the frame. :lol:

[1 Bad 68]

:lol:

Not sure where you are going with that Wiggie, if what someone has done to their car is the extent of their automotive knowledge, then you are really good at installing CAIs :lol: I never even mentioned carbs.
No where :lol: Just like my post where I told the guy to weld the seat directly to the frame. :lol:

Is that not how they do it? :? :lol: