Looks or performance?

[ActiveAero]

Since its slow around here thought I'd post something. So which do you prefer looks or performance and why.

I'm about 95% performance 5% looks what about you guys?

[eSpyder99]

I'd have to say, 85% performance and 15% looks.

3% of the looks accounts for my "bling bling" BOV :wink: .

[Jess]

Ive been more about looks, but now im gonna be
90.1682492% performance and 9.8317508% looks. It took me a long time to come up with those exact numbers, but im gonna stick with those figures

[ActiveAero]

I know this thread is stupid. It was late and I decided I was going to post something.

[WiggiE]

I'm about 50% looks, 50% go.

[1BoMeXLeX]

it all depends on what kinda car it is

if its a ferrari..
fuck it ..just drive the damn thing

if its a hyndai... gotta do performance stuff
cause the new tibouron is nice IMO but just slow from the factory

so its all in what kinda car you get

[Matt Harris]

50/50

I want my car to be the perfect street machine. A reflection of myself, my design aesthetic, and my desire to go fast and handle well. It doesn't have to be the fastest, or the most visually agressive, it simply has to accurately reflect it's driver. And I must have both of those qualities in equal measure.

[CPMaverick]

No offense Brock, but if you were really 95% performance 5% looks why not buy an old CRX, Golf, or other small nice-handling car, and put a complete suspension under it and a turbo. :?:

I mean, you wouldn't need to paint it because the 5% would be in the cool light performance wheels you'd buy. :lol:

Seems like it'd be cheaper than a Type R to make it perform better. :twisted:

[LsTegra713]

I am about 60/40 performance and then looks.
Why have a fast car if it looks like crap. If I wanted something just fast a honda would not be a good car to get.

[SweetLikeCandy]

:lol: I know that due to some of my past experiences with cars my opinion doesn't really count, but..... I would have to say that for me, I would go 60/40 in favor of show.

Performance is important, but my budget doesn't allow me to purchase things like turbo etc... It is a lot easier for me to work on appearence (where you don't HAVE to finish it all at once) than to start with expensive performance mods.

ex: you shouldn't just get a air intake tube, you should get an air filter also, but you can put in racing seats before you work on the dash and door panels etc... :wink:

[WiggiE]

:lol: I know that due to some of my past experiences with cars my opinion doesn't really count, but..... I would have to say that for me, I would go 60/40 in favor of show.

Performance is important, but my budget doesn't allow me to purchase things like turbo etc... It is a lot easier for me to work on appearence (where you don't HAVE to finish it all at once) than to start with expensive performance mods.

ex: you shouldn't just get a air intake tube, you should get an air filter also, but you can put in racing seats before you work on the dash and door panels etc... :wink:

Try 99% show, 1% go!

[AccoRdINlySlo]

Thats me right there!!! From what everyone has seen, I am all show and like .0001% go. I do have the performance parts but thats just b/c its like a basic rule you follow and all. Like I would love to have go but no $ and not ready to drop 5 G's just to be in the low 15's high 14's. Honestly who cares, its your car and your the one driving it. Show ppl will say hey you can go fast but can't pimp flying by and you know the other way around. But like I said "wish" I could have some go. :cry:

[Felix]

I don't think I have to say which I care more about for those who know me. :wink:


Performance is important, but my budget doesn't allow me to purchase things like turbo etc

Thats bullshit, if you can afford to put "kits," lights, stickers, ect ect on a car then you have money for mods. :roll:

[ActiveAero]

No offense Brock, but if you were really 95% performance 5% looks why not buy an old CRX, Golf, or other small nice-handling car, and put a complete suspension under it and a turbo. :?:

I mean, you wouldn't need to paint it because the 5% would be in the cool light performance wheels you'd buy. :lol:

Seems like it'd be cheaper than a Type R to make it perform better. :twisted:

Simple: Because its new and has a 100,000mi warranty. I also know every single mile that has ever been put on it. One day it will be like a cheap CRX. The only difference is that I will have owned it from the get go. I'm sure you see were I'm coming from.

[SweetLikeCandy]

I don't think I have to say which I care more about for those who know me. :wink:


Performance is important, but my budget doesn't allow me to purchase things like turbo etc

Thats bullshit, if you can afford to put "kits," lights, stickers, ect ect on a car then you have money for mods. :roll:

:shock: You haven't seen my car have you? What stickers I did have were free, and the rest of the shit was bought with food stamps. :lol:

[A418t81]

Why have a fast car if it looks like crap.

Post of the year award right here.......put this one on the fridge.

[ActiveAero]

Ok this is why I think performance should come first. Let's look at guy number 1. He's the guy that wants to be cool and has to fit in with the crowd. Main goal is to make sure he's noticed and wants all the chicks to dig his ride. He's spent a couple of G's into his stock Civic to make it look tight but engine wise its bone stock. To him its all about the image and the scene.

Guy number 2 rides around in his 5.0 stang. Yeah it doesn't look like much but he keeps it clean and gives it a good wax when he can. He's spent his money on the engine and did it the right way. When he has time he's at the track honing his skills. It's not the cleanest car in the world but he's proud of it.

Here's the difference between the two: Guy number 1 rides around scared. He might not show it on the outside, but he's always looking out because he knows that if he gets in a race he's gonna get killed. His car looks good, but it doesn't have any soul. Guy number two rides around low key, but with a hidden confidence. Yeah his car doesn't look that great but he can drive it proud because when its time to race he can hand almost anything on the street its ass without thinking twice.

Guy number 1 is the dude who has to make excuses to his girlfriend about why he lost. She starts to doubt him a little after his "fast looking ride" just got smoked by some old stock looking 80's car. Guy number 2 never has to explain when he loses. Why would he? His car never advertised that it was fast to begin with.

[ActiveAero]

Oh and one more thing. When I say looks I'm talking about non nessecary items. If your car is dented up and rusting through or the paint is fading bad thats something I see nessecary as needing to be fixed. Just making sure everyone knows what context I'm speaking in.

[1 Bad 68]

Damn Brock, you should be a professor. That post kicks ass. Glad someone spent the time to type that, cause I never have the time to say how I really feel, but you pretty much did it for me. Thanks yo.

[Matt Harris]

I disagree.

The importance of performance versus appearance is obviously relative. Everyone has a different opinion here, but I for one don't drive around looking to race people. And if I do happen upon a race i'm not much worried either way whether I win or lose, it's about having fun. Granted, you always hope you win, but if you don't, well, it's just not that important.

Whatever makes you proud of your car, then that's great. But if a guy wants his car to look good then that's as much his prerogative as you wanting your car to be fast. Don't assume that because a guy has a nice looking car he's worried whether or not people will think it's fast. The 'fear of the race' is as childish as it is stupid.

As I said in my earlier post, if you want an all around great car, then to concentrate too heavily on either extreme is a mistake.

For instance Guy A has a rustang that runs twelves. Fast as crap and looks like ass. Guy B has an acura with bling bling rims and a kicking system. They both are probably fulfilling their own desires, but if they want a car that is appealing to the masses while also satisfying the aesthetic and rationale of the average enthusiast then they are most likely falling short.

Essentially, every person here has things about their cars that they like and they all have different priorities when it comes to appearance and performance. However, to deny either the performance or aesthetic aspects of the automobile is to deny the heart of the automobile itself. Function and art my friends, not just function and not just art. You can't have one without the other, and if you do then I can assure you myself as well as the average person won't be lusting after your car. And since this whole thread is clearly another thread concerning the Ego and the place of machismo within the car enthusiast culture, then that must be what you want. But if you don't pay attention to this advice, then you won't be getting it. Sorry.

[ActiveAero]

I disagree.

The importance of performance versus appearance is obviously relative. Everyone has a different opinion here, but I for one don't drive around looking to race people. And if I do happen upon a race i'm not much worried either way whether I win or lose, it's about having fun. Granted, you always hope you win, but if you don't, well, it's just not that important.

Whatever makes you proud of your car, then that's great. But if a guy wants his car to look good then that's as much his prerogative as you wanting your car to be fast. Don't assume that because a guy has a nice looking car he's worried whether or not people will think it's fast. The 'fear of the race' is as childish as it is stupid.

As I said in my earlier post, if you want an all around great car, then to concentrate too heavily on either extreme is a mistake.

For instance Guy A has a rustang that runs twelves. Fast as crap and looks like ass. Guy B has an acura with bling bling rims and a kicking system. They both are probably fulfilling their own desires, but if they want a car that is appealing to the masses while also satisfying the aesthetic and rationale of the average enthusiast then they are most likely falling short.

Essentially, every person here has things about their cars that they like and they all have different priorities when it comes to appearance and performance. However, to deny either the performance or aesthetic aspects of the automobile is to deny the heart of the automobile itself. Function and art my friends, not just function and not just art. You can't have one without the other, and if you do then I can assure you myself as well as the average person won't be lusting after your car. And since this whole thread is clearly another thread concerning the Ego and the place of machismo within the car enthusiast culture, then that must be what you want. But if you don't pay attention to this advice, then you won't be getting it. Sorry.

This is coming from a guy with an APR stage III turbo kit. :wink:

Oh and my car doesn't have any art. It's a Honda with styling from 1994. :P

[1 Bad 68]

Fucxk it, i need to get tired so I'll spend a little time here. These days I stand like this: I like to have 1 car that is nice and I can take places and not be embarrased by it. The firebird had faded paint, but no body even gave a shit about the car, everyone always said it was badass whereever it went anyways. I guess the sound it made was good enough. I always wanted to get it painted, but I couldn't/wouldn't afford the $2-3K that needed to be spent to give it a "flawless" job. Now that the laser was my only car, the faded paint and the 2 dents it had was bugging me. If I planned on building that car up, and have another daily driver, I wouldn't get it fixed and leave it faded. That way I'd have a 11-12 second car that would look like it wouldn't get out of its own way. LSTeg wants his car to look fast as well as perform, but I'd rather be the confident guy that makes the losers girlfriend laugh because he just got beat by something that looks like it rolled out of a junkyard on its side, that feeling is just great. But as of now looks like the laser will be the daily so its gonna get all the body fixed and painted soon. The hit and run kinda pushed that up on the priority list. I've been on both sides here, I used to be that scared ricer in my crx, and learned the hardway. I was bad, for every $50 I spent on mods, I'd spend $100+ on cosmetics. Now I look back and cannot believe I used to like body kits and spoilers, I guess I was changing, then the fast and furious came out and that just about made me vomit. I honestly don't think I could drive a civic every again, turbo or not just becuase of the image people have given them. Once I smarted up, I put a zc in my crx and sprayed 125 shot on it, then it woudl back up all the looks I had put on it, but it took me a year of ricing to "wake up" and make it run. When I sold it I bought a '93 Si and did a b16 swap. It was decent, but then I found the Firebird, and once I drove it, I had to have it. The firebird changed my views completely, I guess once you drive an old big block v8 that everyone fears when it pulls up beside at a light with its idle, you just don't ever want to go back to a fart pipe, even if it does run 12's. I'm torn now and don't know what I'm gonna do next, but a "decent" looking car is important to me, just not all the unnicessary heavy unaerodynamic body kits and wings, they are just stupid looking to me now, but hey, to each his own.

[A418t81]

AhfreakingMEN Matt! :D

[1 Bad 68]

And just to reply to Matts post, I don't ever drive around looking for races, my car isn't fast IMO. When I did used to street race a lot w/ cars that I built from ground up and lose, I wouldn't care. Ya'll know my attitude, You beat me, I beat you , either way I'm easy going. I didnt' run the times I was supposed to last weekend, but thats cool, I'm straightening out the problems and heading back out next weekend.

But the majority of the "import scene" right now do think that their cars will run, like I said, I've been there. I see a lot of it when riding around in my bone stock old integra, guys in 90-93 style accords w/ raspy exhaust revving at any car around, launching at lights just being little bitches racing everyone including grandma in her van. Granted not everyone is like this, but I'll stereotype cause I'll be right more than wrong on this topic. People like Steven w/ his as he calls "King Rice" accord are fine with me, he knows his shit is slow, and he doesn't try to be fast, doesn't rev at people etc. He likes his clean look, stereo and playstation, and thats fine with me, I think his car looks very good. Unfortunately most guys aren't like this and like to talk a lot of shit and have the attitude that their shit is the fastest on the road.

[WiggiE]

Yes, I agree to most of your posts. I personally want my daily driver to look really nice, whether I mod the engine or not. I would rather have a stock, well taken car of car, than a shitbox that is fast. But on the other hand if I had more than one car the 2nd would either be left as I bought it or it would be "perfect" depending on my wants for that car.

And when I said 50/50, I don't mean body kits and shit. I mean a car with decent looking alloys, a nice paint job, a well taken care of interior, and a well running car. For my daily driver, I would actually focus on that first then mods second.

[Matt Harris]

This is coming from a guy with an APR stage III turbo kit. :wink:

Oh and my car doesn't have any art. It's a Honda with styling from 1994. :P

Like I said, you can't have performance without looks and looks without performance. :)

Oh, and you're right, Japanese cars in general aren't particularly stunning examples of automotive art design. :lol:

Anyway, I really agree with you guys for the most part, just felt you were being a bit harsh and had to rebut.

I love Type R's, and OB, I know your attitude, you're about as laid back as they come. It's all good.

You're right OB, there are plenty of morons out there who are posers, like I said in my 'rant' in the thread about 'the game'. But like you said, Stephen is a good example of people who are into aesthetics over performance and are completely cool with that, not trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. There's idiots everywhere though, as we all know.

Oh, and I can appreciate the appeal of 'the sleeper' as well. I'd like to have a 1.6l turbo Ford Fiesta one day that could trash mustang GT's. There's certainly a vicarious thrill to be gained by beating up on guys in 20K cars in a 1K POS. :wink:

[1 Bad 68]

Oh, and I can appreciate the appeal of 'the sleeper' as well. I'd like to have a 1.6l turbo Ford Fiesta one day that could trash mustang GT's. There's certainly a vicarious thrill to be gained by beating up on guys in 20K cars in a 1K POS. :wink:

Glad someone else has the balls to admit that :lol:

[insert_car]

damn its 4:30 in the morning i don't want to read this know so i'll come back with something intellegent tomorrow. till then...... 70/30 for go now....its getting addictive..

[CPMaverick]

Everyone wants a nice looking car.

But I think you've got to seperate spending money on body 'mods' from just spending money to make your car look like a well-kept stocker.

I'd rather have a stock appearing car that is fast, rather than a wild-looking car; even if it's just as fast.

BTW the Maverick DID have the same color and stripes when it was new. :)

[SweetLikeCandy]

I really like what I've read so far on this post. Even though some of the opinions are very differant they all, in some sense, have the same ideas.

I am one of those ppl. who will go look for a race. I'm not ashamed of that. All of us know that the neon was by no means fast :lol: ; I don't even think that what half ass mods I did do made it apear that way.

What I did was what I wanted to do at the time. I did it for myself and not to impress anyone else. After being around you guys for a little while I did take my stickers off. That's because I came to understand what you all were saying and in the end, agreed.

As stated above, I really like this post. It's nice to have someone (for whatever reason) start a topic like this one.

[Frosty_DUB]

Im so confused on my outlook on import cars nowdays. :( I love hondas but dont want to be called a ricer. I want something different and not follow a trend. But no matter what I do, it will be trendy in some way. I have always loved integras and EG hatchbacks sence around 93, but they are so trendy now.

I really wanted to get a 240, but ricers are getting them now and wanting "mAd TiiTe SR swaPs y0!"

Im way more into performance, but i want my car looking really nice too. Once that NEW MOVIE comes out, our world will be shot to hell. Im serious. You think there are alot of morons on the road now, just wait.

I wish it could go back to the way it was when i was in early highschool. There was only 2 hybrid hondas in huntsville. No ricers.

[quattro]

When you say "new movie" are you refering to the new street racing movie thats on its way? As far as I know it is much more like a documentary then something like TFAF. It may not be so bad... I mean, I'll give it a chance.
However, If we're talking about the same movie where the main character drives an A4, I must say that they really screwed up in styling that car. It looks like hell. I mean, a stocker with rims would blow it away in the looks department. Oh well.

Oh yeah, I loved your post Matt. To each his own.

[Jess]

You talkin bout that movie quattro nova? Looks okay. very independend and documentary-ish

[Frosty_DUB]

no im sure that movie is cool, the one im talking about ends in a 2.

[1.8t]

I am definitely more into performance.....if you separate my spending into categories of looks and performance, I have spent $130 on looks and $2200 on performance. The performance number will continue to rise while the looks number will stay the same for a while. My car is not a looker. I don't see it as a very attractive car. I do see it as a fun car that handles very well(now) and is fast enough to surprise the hell out of many people. I mean I am rolling around lowered due o my coilovers on my stock 15" alloys. I looks like ass but it gets the job done and I won't get rims untill I have purchased and installed a stg.3. The idea of rolling around in an almost stock looking Passat while romping on LS1's(stock that is) is just too appealing for me. That would be tons of fun 8). I will start working on the cosmetics of my car when I have soundly upgraded its performance to what I think it should be at

[SweetLikeCandy]

Im so confused on my outlook on import cars nowdays. :( I love hondas but dont want to be called a ricer. I want something different and not follow a trend. But no matter what I do, it will be trendy in some way. I have always loved integras and EG hatchbacks sence around 93, but they are so trendy now.

I really wanted to get a 240, but ricers are getting them now and wanting "mAd TiiTe SR swaPs y0!"

Im way more into performance, but i want my car looking really nice too. Once that NEW MOVIE comes out, our world will be shot to hell. Im serious. You think there are alot of morons on the road now, just wait.

I wish it could go back to the way it was when i was in early highschool. There was only 2 hybrid hondas in huntsville. No ricers.

Great Post. When I got into driving neons, it wasn't because I liked the way that they look. I do like some things about them, but for the most part I would have to say no.

I didn't want a honda b/c everyone has a honda, but I love how ludes and civics look and run. Hopefully the deal on the 240sx will still come through for me. Who cares if anyone else has one?

My advice... What does it matter what kind of car you drive, the mods you put on it, or even if there is a fine bitch riding passenger? It's your car and your the one who drives it. Be proud of what you do have and be your own person (even if you drive a honda) :lol: It took me awhile to figure this out and I hope that you'll find some help within my post.

[1BoMeXLeX]

well...uh ... no matter how hard you try
there will always be some one faster than you
and no matter how hard you try
some one will have a car that looks better..

so just do what you want... if you like it ... go with it

but as said... i personally like looks better
and i perfer to be noticed over your average car and want people to remember what they see

[Frosty_DUB]

Looks get old after a while, a fast car is always more fun :wink:

[grizoove]

Screw the fast car and just give me a tank (literally) No ones car is going to dodge my high velocity explosives. :kaboom:

Well, I have focused on the looks of my car (and I am finished with the looks also). I have come to the realization that basically without a swap the car will never be fast. So my aim now is to work on it and make it a really fun car to drive (especially over stock) and keep reliablity. Still formulating the track for this but funds are not avaliable now so it doens't really matter.

[WiggiE]

I have come to the realization that basically without a swap the car will never be fast.

Which swap???? 8)

[grizoove]

I was talkin about the big block V8 and RWD swap duh! or the 1980 something prelude swap :P

Swaps are just out of my price range at this time...so why not stick with the D seris. It can be made where it will be a bit more fun to drive especially if it handles like a go kart on steroids.

[1 Bad 68]

I was talkin about the big block V8 and RWD swap duh! or the 1980 something prelude swap :P

Swaps are just out of my price range at this time...so why not stick with the D seris. It can be made where it will be a bit more fun to drive especially if it handles like a go kart on steroids.

Find a used cam, I'll instal it for $50. You will be very impressed! Thats the only noticable difference you are going to get N/A. You should be able to find one in the $150 range.

[grizoove]

I have heard also that putting D16A6 pistons will bump the compression of the Y8 to around 10.5:1. Any pros or cons to this.

And are you talking about a used aftermarket cam like a zex or whatnot, or a used cam out of another civic with a more agressive profile?? I like the idea of staying NA on the D series even though it will never be too quick, but I think it would make it much more fun than it is now to drive.

[1 Bad 68]

I have heard also that putting D16A6 pistons will bump the compression of the Y8 to around 10.5:1. Any pros or cons to this.

And are you talking about a used aftermarket cam like a zex or whatnot, or a used cam out of another civic with a more agressive profile??

As far as pistons go, I wouldn't put those in there, I'd by some aftermarkets, if you are gonna go through the trouble of tearing down the engine, put something new in there.

As far as the cams go, I always used Gudes when I built Hondas. I put them in my d16a6, d16z6, and my zc (ended up hurting, they were the biggest cams made for the d16a1 in the 1st gen integras, but still smaller than the stock zc's...) too bad I found out the wrong way. I'll see if any of my buddies have any lying around, but its gonna give you the most performance out of anything you buy. You'll need the intake and exhaust to help flow, because that cam will be good for 9,500 rpms, and you'll want it to be able to breathe up there.

[grizoove]

I appreciate the information. I know that before I move inside the engine I need to get the I/H/E setup, but funds have ceased to exist. If you come out tuesday I will talk with you some more about this. I am the guy in the white civic with Si wheels.

[1 Bad 68]

I appreciate the information. I know that before I move inside the engine I need to get the I/H/E setup, but funds have ceased to exist. If you come out tuesday I will talk with you some more about this. I am the guy in the white civic with Si wheels.

Personally, if I couldn't afford it all, I'd get the cam first, it'd be cheaper than intake and exhaust and even w/ everything else stock you'll still feel a huge power increase. You'd have to atleast get the revlimiter bumped up to 9 though, cause that cam isn't going to start pulling good to about 7500. And fuck everyone that says a honda won't turn 10K on stock valvetrain! I did it in my 145K mile sohc(d16z6) for several months with no problems!

[grizoove]

what happened after the several months??

[1 Bad 68]

I realized what real HP and Torque was and sold it and bought my '68, then built the motor in it cheaper than a turbo kit would cost for the civic and ended up w/ around 400hp and RWD. :evil:

[1 Bad 68]

I've never blown up a honda, for example-back when I was in highschool I put a zc in my '91 CRX Si, it ran 10.0's, so I thought that was shitty (I was your typical ricer, "60' WHATS THAT???" I had already built a few engines, so I decided to go into mine. Put forged 9.5:1 pistons in and I can't remember which rods, got them off parts trader, anyways, built it up and sprayed 125 direct on it for 6 months, never blowing it up. I'd turn that shit on when I was on my way to school. I sprayed that motor constantly, how it didn't blow up, I'll never understand. This was the motor w/ the gude cams in it. I shifted at 8,800 when not spraying and 8 when spraying. The kid that bought my '93 Si w/ the gude cam and a gazillion miles on it still hasn't blown it up, just wrecked it and had it painted a nasty ass baby blue color.

I'm sure if I built a turbo honda now, I'd blow it up. I get boost happy. Fuck it, you got to experiment to be fast. I've only seen one turbo Honda that knew what he was doing/and or had balls at MMP and that was Brian (TurboTypeR) from Birmingham a few weeks ago. Trapping 121mph and ran a 12.0 Does he give a shit if he blows it up? Nope, just got to do something better next time.