Boost Controller

[srtspeed]

Hey guys. I am new to the turbo world and I was wondering what exactly does a boost controller do and how can you benfit from it? What does it control? Which is better the EBC or MBC? Thanks.

[AadosX]

Hey man, welcome to the boards.

Well an MBC and an EBC basically do the same thing, but the nice thing about an EBC is that you can control boost from inside the car. It's faster and easier, and more exact.

Either way, the MBC is much much cheaper, so I suggest it unless you have lots of cash sitting around.

What it does is raise your boost, which gives you more HP. But that also puts more strain on your turbo, and injects hotter air into the engine unless you get a new intercooler, which can be bad if you take it to an extreme.

[srtspeed]

Thanks. Yes I do have an intercooler. What does the boost controller hook up to? Does it hook up to the vacuum line that goes to the wastegate? Does it control the vacuum therefore allowing the wastegate not to open so soon? Thanks.

Keith

[Jess]

Thanks. Yes I do have an intercooler. What does the boost controller hook up to? Does it hook up to the vacuum line that goes to the wastegate? Does it control the vacuum therefore allowing the wastegate not to open so soon? Thanks.

Keith

you got it figured out. it basically 'hides' boost from the wastegate so it doesnt know to open

I splurged and got a name-brand MBC. it was $100, but i could have gotten the same thing for $20 on ebay

[insert_car]

yup, i would just go the MBC route. Its ALOT cheaper, this way you can spend money on opening up that exhuast and upgrading the FMIC.

[srtspeed]

umm . . . ok. I'll go and check out ebay and see what they got. Before I buy I'll let you guys check it out and let me know if I should or shouldn't.

[srtspeed]

Ok here is what I found yes or no??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7910962748&category=42604

[Jess]

Looks good. that'll work. only takes 2 minutes to install and 2 minutes to uninstall if you have to go in for service. all you need is the boost controlelr and a few inches of vacum line and you're set

[WiggiE]

but the nice thing about an EBC is that you can control boost from inside the car. It's faster and easier, and more exact.

Hum.....they make MBC's and EBC's that can be controlled from inside the car. Alot of people think it's actually faster and easier to put on an MBC and control it, then wiring up an EBC. A good EBC is no more exact than a MBC, you just can't tell it a specific psi.

The real pluses to an EBC:
1. Bling value
2. Set the psi as a number
3. Fuzzy logic
4. Weight reduction (from your back pocket)
5. Bling

[Adam]

Also w/ an in car EBC you'll be more tempted to fiddle with it (I know I would)...

Fiddling w/ something like that can cause ya more trouble than it's worth if you fiddle up a bit too much :D:D

Better to just set it to something nice and resonable and forget it unless your at the track or dyno, then tweak as needed...

[xamraci]

if you want a nice MBC...you can go for an XS engineering MBC...that is what I am going to purchase...if I dont get the Profec E01 from greddy to go with my Emanage 8)

[A418t81]

SRT, if I were you I'd make sure that you can simply run an MBC w/out any side effects. If I recall correctly, your computer is very dictatorial and gets pissy very quickly. Do your research over on the srtforums

[Jess]

damn, good point man. i forgot the computer has a boost sensor

[A418t81]

damn, good point man. i forgot the computer has a boost sensor

Yeah, the SRT-4 is actually map based. No maf to be found. Pretty nice for a factory turbo car (well, in some aspects) :)

[AadosX]

2. Set the psi as a number


That's what I meant by more exact... wrong wording, my bad.

Also, SRT, yeah you do have an intercooler, but you can upgrade that to a MUCH nicer front mount one that will cool better and give you more HP.

[insert_car]

damn, good point man. i forgot the computer has a boost sensor

Yeah, the SRT-4 is actually map based. No maf to be found. Pretty nice for a factory turbo car (well, in some aspects) :)


agreed. i forgot also. good point indeed!

[WiggiE]

What's a MAF? :wink:

[1.8t]

What's a MAF? :wink:

"F" off 8)

[srtspeed]

Thanks Guys!! Ok, I am currently with srtforums.com. Yes, I have been reading about anything and everything about the srt, general turbo info, and things that other srt owners have done to their cars. So far what I have gotten is that the srt (only being an 04 due to already having the stage one injectors) is able to handle up to 15 psi. I think that I would just like to stay in the range of 10 psi. With me not having an air/fuel gauge what is the best what for me to ensure that I don't lean out? Would I just need to pay attention to my boost gauge? I think that I would like to get the EBC instead of the MBC. I just wanted to see how the car feel with about 10 to 12 psi. That is why I am just searching for a cheap MBC or anything like that. About the FMIC is have been looking into that and I think that will be my next month purchase. Best part about it, is that it is a complete bolt on.

[WiggiE]

A/F gauges are garbage. They are not accurate because your O2 sensor is not accurate enough to get a true reading.

Instead of getting an A/F, consider getting a EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge.

Don't blow your money on an FMIC, since you have one already and it's not tiny like Mazdaspeed's BS intercoolers. I bet that one would handle at least 300whp. Look into getting other things, like test pipes, or new injectors to allow you to safely raise the boost beyond 15psi.

[srtspeed]

So things like . . . 3 inch full cat back exhaust system, bigger injectors (not sure what size), stage 2 ECM, turbo upgrade, stuff like that?

[insert_car]

yup A/F gauges are worthless, like he said get a EGT(pyro) most important gauge IMO.

aslo true about the fmic, i was thinking of my intercooler and mazda intercoolers. they suck. yours doesn't.

3" back is a MUST! 8)

[srtspeed]

Ok (remember newbie) how would you read the pyro gauge? Isn't it in temp readings? As far as the intercoolers, I have seen the Mazda IC and they do suck. Why so small. I guess in a situation like this bigger is better. Do the IC NOS setup work well?

[WiggiE]

Ok (remember newbie) how would you read the pyro gauge? Isn't it in temp readings?
Yes, you find out proper ranges for your motor and if it goes too high or too low, it's not running safely or efficiently.

As far as the intercoolers, I have seen the Mazda IC and they do suck. Why so small.
$$$ and pressure drop.

I guess in a situation like this bigger is better.
Not always. If you use the same design intercooler, the larger the intercooler, the greater the pressure drop.

Theoretically, if you were planning to stay at one set boost level, you would want the smallest intercooler for your situation. You want a low pressure drop, high efficiency, and high resistency to heat soak.

Do the IC NOS setup work well?
Again, something that isn't worth the money. At least not at this point.


Biggest things to look at on a turbo car to mod:
1. Exhaust system (manifold to the rear of the car)
2. Intake system (filter to the throttle body)
3. Fuel system (IE fuel pump, injectors, and other things needed to turn up the boost safely)
4. BOV (alot of factory BOV's can't even handle stock boost)
5. Tuning system (whether it's a AFC, FPR, or a full standalone; if your car isn't able to properly distribute the fuel, you'll have either an unstable or inefficient car)

[AadosX]

What turbo does the SRT-4 come with?

[insert_car]

pretty sure its a TD04

[AadosX]

What's that comparable to? The K04?

[WiggiE]

What's that comparable to? The K04?

HAHA....i HOPE you're joking......



It's a Mitsu TD04-L-16GK.

[A418t81]

pretty sure its a TD04

Hmm, you sure? I think a td04 hotside would be a bit too small for 2.4L. Its probably a TD05 (maybe an H, but I don't think so) with a middle ground 16G compressor.
SRT, do your research and let us know what the turbo is. The one from my car is a TD05HR-16G6-9.8T

1. TD05 hotside, H stands for the high flow version, R for reverse rotation
2. 16G6 is the compressor classification
3. 9.8 is the cm^2 area of the turbine nozzle (bigger, more power, smaller, better spoo). The MR will come w/ the same turbo, but has a 10.5 cm nozzle.

[insert_car]

its a td04 16g. so its bigger than the k04 but its not a big turbo by any means. k03's and k04's are TINY

edit: i didn't refresh and answered after you guys. 8)

[WiggiE]

pretty sure its a TD04

Hmm, you sure? I think a td04 hotside would be a bit too small for 2.4L.

It's a Mitsu TD04-L-16GK.

[A418t81]

pretty sure its a TD04

Hmm, you sure? I think a td04 hotside would be a bit too small for 2.4L.

It's a Mitsu TD04-L-16GK.

Haha, that sucks ;) Oh well.

[insert_car]

pretty sure its a TD04

Hmm, you sure? I think a td04 hotside would be a bit too small for 2.4L.

It's a Mitsu TD04-L-16GK.

Haha, that sucks ;) Oh well.

where's my cookie........WHERE'S MY COOKIE!!! :lol:

[srtspeed]

Biggest things to look at on a turbo car to mod:
1. Exhaust system (manifold to the rear of the car)
2. Intake system (filter to the throttle body)
3. Fuel system (IE fuel pump, injectors, and other things needed to turn up the boost safely)
4. BOV (alot of factory BOV's can't even handle stock boost)
5. Tuning system (whether it's a AFC, FPR, or a full standalone; if your car isn't able to properly distribute the fuel, you'll have either an unstable or inefficient car)

So something like this . . .
Exhaust - 3 inch pipe full cat back system - speaking of which, what is the name of the pipe that runs from the turbo to the cat? Is there even a name for it?

Intake - CAI ??

Fuel System - bigger injectors (not sure what cc), aftermarket fuel pump, aftermarket fuel rail (is this necessary?)

BOV - I am currently running the Mopar BOV but I know that BOV leaks at higher boost pressure so I was thinking something like the HKS SSQ

Piggy Back - Hondata???? Not sure on this one - uhh . . . HELP!!

[srtspeed]

Oh one more thing. The SRT has a returnless fuel line??? What is the issue with that?

[1.8t]

That pipe is called a downpipe. As for a returnless fuel sys. Not sure what the pros/cons are of that. I know almost every FI car runs a return line, but I have also seem some pimped out drag hondas run returnless fuel systems.

[Jess]

hondata is a stand-alone (for hondas only of course)

most popular piggybacks are S-AFC, E-manage

[A418t81]

Oh one more thing. The SRT has a returnless fuel line??? What is the issue with that?

The problem with that is that it is most likely not intake manifold pressure referenced. Returnless fuel systems usually have the fuel pressure regulator built into the fuel filter and as such do not usually have a vaccum line run to them to adjust fuel pressure based on the pressure, or lack of in the intake manifold.

Basically a stock fpr will raise the pressure of the fuel line 1 psi for every psi increase in the intake mani. That allows linear delivery as if you have 20 psi in the intake mani and 70 psi in your fuel rail, your net fuel delivery pressure is 50 psi which effectively makes your injectors smaller as fuel delivery is pulse width X pressure unless you increase the fuel pressure to 90 psi, which still keeps the net 70 psi pressure.

[dc2nr]

i believe hondata is a piggy back.

and they were thinking about branching off to do neon SRT4's for boost, but nevermind that, i just got the word they wont.

[WiggiE]

i believe hondata is a piggy back.

It's not. Although they do modify a stock ECU, it is NOT a piggyback.

[AadosX]

What is it?

[WiggiE]

What is it?
www.google.com

[A418t81]

What is it?

A Hondata would technically be a stand alone since you are given access to any table that would be of significance plus other cool things.

[CPMaverick]

A Hondata is a standalone by definition because it 'stands alone', its all you need. But since it has 'Honda' in the name it sucks. ;) hehe

There are 2 types of returnless fuel systems. The Neon has the simple kind, its basically the exact same thing as a return system, except the regulator is in the tank, and the return line is really damn short. :D Like has already been said the main problem with this is you can't reference boost and you don't get a linear pressure differential across the injector.

The other type is more complicated and there is an electronic pressure sensor on the rail, and fuel pump voltage is sent with a pulsewidth to match whatever pressure the ECU wants. This is used on more high-end sophisticated cars, like Fords. :lol:

[Jess]

A Hondata is a standalone by definition because it 'stands alone', its all you need. But since it has 'Honda' in the name it sucks. ;) hehe


I think the reason it might seem a bit border-line to some people is that it requires an ECU in order to work, although it doesnt work by modifying signals like a piggyback

[A418t81]

A Hondata is a standalone by definition because it 'stands alone', its all you need. But since it has 'Honda' in the name it sucks. ;) hehe

There are 2 types of returnless fuel systems. The Neon has the simple kind, its basically the exact same thing as a return system, except the regulator is in the tank, and the return line is really damn short. :D Like has already been said the main problem with this is you can't reference boost and you don't get a linear pressure differential across the injector.

The other type is more complicated and there is an electronic pressure sensor on the rail, and fuel pump voltage is sent with a pulsewidth to match whatever pressure the ECU wants. This is used on more high-end sophisticated cars, like Fords. :lol:

Yeah, that was kind of my point. Nothing is required to massage input or output signals from the ECU. As you said, it stands alone.

[AadosX]

That's what I wondered. So with Hondata you remove the stock ECU from the car and it is replaced, ehh?

[xamraci]

Hondata is Attached to the Stock Ecu...or in Chappys Or My case...an integra ECU would be installed in place of chappys, and a Civic Ex Ecu would go in place of my ECU...obviously of the same OBD. Which is why its more expensive for hondata on an accord or prelude...because they havent matched a system for his gen lude or my gen accord...

[AadosX]

So even though it doesn't stand alone, it's a stand-alone.

[Jess]

it does stand alone. its like an evil parasite that uses a stock ecu as its host but instead of leaving your with scurvy and malnutrition it gives you a smooth idle and A/F curve