Guns are Dangerous? no, Greyson is! [Archive] - aSpeed Racing [ Auburn / Atlanta ]

linuxman51

11-09-2004, 12:01 AM

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Grabbed this from another site (link at bottom) though some of yall might like it

http://evilallianceracing.com/v-web/portal/cms/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif (http://evilallianceracing.com/v-web/portal/cms/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=1397&sid=fa7f52f5d3392d923af1be2e407ec36f#1397)Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:17 am Post subject: statistical tickler
</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>http://evilallianceracing.com/v-web/portal/cms/modules/Forums/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif (http://evilallianceracing.com/v-web/portal/cms/modules.php?name=Forums&file=posting&mode=quote&p=1397&sid=fa7f52f5d3392d923af1be2e407ec36f) </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>Doctors

a. The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.
b. Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year are 120,000.
c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
(Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept.of Health & Human Services)

Gun Owners

a. The number of gun owners in the U.S. is > 80,000,000.
b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.
c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is 0.000188.

Conclusion

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

Remember, guns don't kill people; doctors do.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>http://evilallianceracing.com/v-web/portal/cms/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=179

Vetteman2003

11-09-2004, 12:18 AM

I love that statistic. I will have to use that in every pro-gun argument I get into from now on.:D

AadosX

11-09-2004, 12:29 AM

old.

Jon|Hazan

11-09-2004, 09:47 AM

HA! That's crazy!

evilaudiprojekt

11-09-2004, 11:31 AM

haha, "guns don't kill people, doctors do"

A418t81

11-09-2004, 11:32 AM

Yeah, numbers are numbers. There's 700,000 doctors and 350 million people. With those kinds of figures, it happens. At least, well most of the time ;) , stupid people aren't playing with lots of people's lives every day ;)

Jon|Hazan

11-09-2004, 11:34 AM

What does this mean: "Med school cadaver wacko"

Explain, because its scaring the shit outta me

Jess

11-09-2004, 11:36 AM

I saw this thing on 20/20 or 48hrs about how bad doctors are getting sued left and right for the stupidest shit. You see that Greyson? It was pretty interesting. Lots of doctors/surgeons were having to up and move to a different state where laws were different and they couldnt get sued as easily.

Jon|Hazan

11-09-2004, 11:39 AM

yes, its called malpractice..

My father has a malpractice case that has been under review since 1987.. i don't think people appreciate how hard doctors work.

either that or some people are just fucking morons, greedy..

AadosX

11-09-2004, 12:52 PM

Exactly. People are greedy and don't understand how hard it is to be a doctor. Now I'm sure that some doctors deserve it and are greedy, but people make mistakes...

Obike

11-09-2004, 01:04 PM

I got a doctor here in Alabama banned from practicing here for malpractice, I didn't pursue monetary compensation (although I easily could have). My arm got infected and was quite literally leaking pus, he said it wasn't infected and the next day I had emergency surgery in Huntsville.

I looked at my arm and could obviously tell it was infected, as well as my mom being able to tell (she's a nurse). When the doctor said it wasn't infected several nurses and doctors looked at the guy like he was crazy... several members of the staff at that hospital testified against him for us. One of the few people that deserved it.

A418t81

11-09-2004, 03:26 PM

Yeah, thats a totally viable case. The stuff that pisses me off is when patients don't tell the doctors the truth, say an anesthesiologist, when they ask them about their drinkin habits, etc. A lot of the lushes out there don't want to admit to it, so they don't, and then the drug the DR uses to put the patient asleep interacts, etc, etc.....finally the alcoholic tries to sue the DR because they are now screwed up even though they didn't tell the DR the truth and some slime ball lawyer somewhere figures out how to make it all sound like its the DR's fault for believing the patient.

The stories go both ways, but yes, American is becoming an extremely ligitagous society....EVERYBODY is looking for a quick way to get rich off of somebody else's demise. Sad really. That kind of thinking keeps a lot of cool cars, and many other things from coming here.

LT1NRG

11-09-2004, 03:36 PM

Basically, people in this world bitch too much. Would they prefer the medical knowledge we had during the plague? "My groin hurts profusely, and I'm hemmoraging violently!!" "Oh that's caused by saturn and jupiter's alignments...go drink some rat piss, vinegar, and lizard blood." In a case like OBike's I totally agree and it's warranted, but there are some ridiculous cases out there.

I think that I have more respect for those that create the treatments, medicines, and procedures than I have for the doctors that perform them.

Too many times have doctors made loads and loads of money for the simplest things that were merely diagnosed using other's research and treated with someone else's medicine.

Surgeons definitely have my respect, and I guess that general physicians dont always have easy tasks. I suppose you get easy and hard with any job. Just seems like they have ALOT of easy and a little bit of HARD.

haha.. "little bit of hard"

Jon|Hazan

11-09-2004, 04:50 PM

I suppose you get easy and hard with any job. Just seems like they have ALOT of easy and a little bit of HARD.

yes, because sleeping an average of 3 hours a night is easy.
And having to ALWAYS be ready available to thousands of people (patients), well i guess thats easy too.
Oh and i guess on top of that, it would be pretty fucked up if these doctors were to expect an actual payment in full for thier services do right?

Wrong.. most insurance companies refuse to pay a doctors bill in full. I've followed some of my fathers financial statments, he usually only collects about 40-50% of his accounts recievables. How would you like it if your paycheck always came up 50% short? i'd be pretty fucking pissed..

Ok, i swear i'm not bitching.. Think about it this way, when a mechanic fucks up on a car, he can just order a new part and take a small financial loss. But when your a doctor, you cant just make mistakes like that.. it's a lot to ask of a person to be perfect EVERY DAY and ALL DAY..

AadosX

11-09-2004, 05:04 PM

I think what doctors are paid is very fair... and I think anyone can agree. I also don't feel sorry for them when it comes to malpractice cases, because that's part of the job, and part of why they're paid so much.

A418t81

11-09-2004, 09:43 PM

linuxman51

11-09-2004, 11:03 PM

If you only knew the work, school, and time involved you wouldn't say that.
stay away from me you murderer ;)

Frosty_DUB

11-09-2004, 11:05 PM

john seems to talk shit about stuff he has NO IDEA about. :cackle:

adam p

11-10-2004, 12:01 AM

NO, lay off. I agree with John. Doctor's are not underpaid. However, I think they deserve the money they get, as does John. The reason they are paid so much (AS A GENERAL RULE) is partly because of malpractice lawsuits. I totally agree with John.

Stop ganging up on him, geez. No idea about? At least he showed where his opinion is founded unlike...most everyone else on this thread :P.

AadosX

11-10-2004, 12:09 AM

Yeah I'm confused. I don't even understand what you're saying Greyson? My post was in no way against doctors lol... wtf? And Clint, same deal, wtf are you even talking about? I do know what I'm talking about, many of my friends parents are doctors, including my ex-girlfriends mom... she was practically a mom of mine too lol.

Zx RaTeD

11-10-2004, 09:22 AM

As for the non-surgeon doctors not deserving their pay and using other peoples research and medicine etc...and then just collecting the bill. It's not the minimal amount of work that you are paying for. It's the KNOWLEDGE! Why do you think people go to doctors, they can't diagnose themselves most of the time with the more "serious" medical cases. They go to a doctor, someone who has undergone extensive training and passes complicated and complexed test. You are paying for the doctors know how and knowledge. Who cares if they use others medicines and who cares if they use others research, their knowledge and know how can save your life, and it is WELL WORTH IT! Why do you think people bitch about how much it cost to go to the doctor, yet they still go when they get sick? I'll let you all answer that by yourselves. As far as the malpractice goes, I'll just say that I know an OBGYN (baby deliverer) who pays $500,000 a year in INSURANCE, yes he pisses quarters and shits out wads of 20's but people will sue him for anything. He has been sued several times because the baby came out and was ugly as fuck, or it ended up being someone elses baby and not the father they thought it was...stupid bullshit. Or maybe they baby came out retarted but they mother was a drunk and gave the damn kid fetal alchohol syndrome. I have complete respect for doctors and in my opinion, hell, they should be paid more than what they make. I mean come on, they save peoples lives on a daily basis, you can't put a price on something like that...Just imagine it were your own mother or father or anyone that you really care for for that matter that needed medical attention. Would you be bitching about the price then? Huh? If their life depended on a doctors treatment and diagnosis?

adam p

11-10-2004, 09:56 AM

I don't understand where you people are coming from.

READ THE THREAD. Nobody bitched about Doctors being expensive. Nobody said their pay was unfair. Nobody said malpractice was a good thing.

Well except LT1 energy said that non-surgeons don't do much HARD work, just alot of it, on a daily basis yet they get paid alot. And yes, that's because they went through all the difficult prerequisites. Specialized work is always rewarded with a higher paycheck, no matter the amoun tof "phsyical labor."

However, I'll bite anyways and counter your point Trent. Just for arguments sake. Just because someone WILL pay lots of money for their loved one to be "healed" doesn't make it right. Couldn't that be closer to exploitation? If people need a diagnosis that requires little from the doctor, should they pay alot anyways? Not everyone has money to throw at the doctor, but everyone needs to live. Does expensive healthcare infringe on the right to life? I am posting this because many many many people would disagree with you Trent. However I'm not necessarily one of them.

Jess

11-10-2004, 10:16 AM

Just because someone WILL pay lots of money for their loved one to be "healed" doesn't make it right. Couldn't that be closer to exploitation?
Agreed. Although I've found most of my healthcare expenses to be pretty reasonable, I did have a short hospital stay when I was about 13-14 years old. My parents couldnt afford insurance, so it was a cash transaction. It was about $6000 for a 1hr surgery, a bed to watch tv in for about 4 days and some real shitty food. I thought that was a bit insane.

PrimeredHatch

11-10-2004, 01:22 PM

My knee surgury was a little over $12,000 and I didn't even stay one night. I know if we didn't have insurance we wouldn't have been able to pay for that.

Jess

11-10-2004, 01:41 PM

Dont even get me started on my penis augmentation surgery. They took out about 8" when they were supposed to shorten it by 18". I still look like a freak down there :(

Zx RaTeD

11-10-2004, 02:10 PM

Damn jess, what are you at now? about 26" right? If my math serves me correct that is. Adam I see what you are saying. However, I must say, and yes it may be wrong, but if I were a doctor, I would not have a problem charging the prices that they do now. I want to make my damn money! Now there would be situations where I would cut some slack for people that really needed the healthcare but can't afford it. Of course I couldn't do that for everyone because then I would just be wasting my time and wouldnt make any money myself. I realize that some people are not fortunate enough to pay for insurance or doctors bills. That's life, and it's not going to change, that's the damn truth. Yes I feel sorry for those people and hope that everything works out for them, but the system is established, and life isn't always fair. I'll end this by saying, you win some you lose some.

Adam

11-10-2004, 03:14 PM

stuff...Paragraphs, are you familar with it?

its near impossible to read a slew of words stuffed together without the needed paragraph breaks, capitalization, and proper punctuation. even the occasional spelling error is fine by me, i'm no english nazi but, actually forming your words into a sort of quasi-legiable organized structure would help a great deal. i really dislike trying to dichper a mis-mash of lower case charecters slung together. isn't this little paragraph here hard to read?....

The original post was simply saying that guns don't kill people Greyson does... Can we get back to Greyson Lector here...

Or lets talk about how guns don't kill people, bullets do...

Grider

11-10-2004, 03:23 PM

My knee surgury was a little over $12,000 and I didn't even stay one night. I know if we didn't have insurance we wouldn't have been able to pay for that.

Try about $800,000 for my mothers brain tumor back in 99. Thank God for insureance. She spent 19 days in Nurological ICU at UAB, after her 1.5 hours medevaq hellicopter flight. She had 3 emergancy surgeries during her stay for various blood clots and crap.

An $800k bill comming 3 weeks after you bury someone sucks. Does not matter that the insureance paid for it, it still freaks you out.

Anyway, it is call Medical "Practice" for a reason. People are too trigger happy on relesing the <strike>hounds</strike> lawyers. Unless it is a disreguard for paitent well-being then it should not end up in a court.

Just my opinion on the subject.

Zx RaTeD

11-10-2004, 03:40 PM

Paragraphs, are you familar with it?

its near impossible to read a slew of words stuffed together without the needed paragraph breaks, capitalization, and proper punctuation. even the occasional spelling error is fine by me, i'm no english nazi but, actually forming your words into a sort of quasi-legiable organized structure would help a great deal. i really dislike trying to dichper a mis-mash of lower case charecters slung together. isn't this little paragraph here hard to read?....

The original post was simply saying that guns don't kill people Greyson does... Can we get back to Greyson Lector here...

Or lets talk about how guns don't kill people, bullets do...
Hi Adam, my name is Trent. Your post wasn't hard to read, I also "usually" only use paragraphs in school...hell, just look at one of my websites here. www.tenhalt.com (http://www.tenhalt.com) I even made a statement about actually using paragraphs in the last post I do believe. Besides, in the case above, I really don't see the need to use multiple paragraphs...I figure it will all be read anyway...no need to pick and choose sections and it wasn't a long post. At least I use sentences ; ) I just write how I think...it's all jumbled together, with one thought leading immediately to the next : ) Sorry if it bothers you, it's your board, I can try weely weely hard to change if you want me to : )

Obike

11-10-2004, 04:12 PM

Actually... i read like the first few sentences before stopping

Trent, I've never read all of your posts simply because i had no judgement for WHEN IT WOULD FUCKING END! Paragraphs are there for a reason...

Lathan

11-10-2004, 04:30 PM

Well except LT1 energy said that non-surgeons don't do much HARD work, just alot of it, on a daily basis yet they get paid alot. And yes, that's because they went through all the difficult prerequisites. Specialized work is always rewarded with a higher paycheck, no matter the amoun tof "phsyical labor."
I have to disagree with LI1 energy. My mom is a non-surgeon (Dermatopathologist) and she makes some of the hardest decisions in the medical field. If you have a brain tumor, the brain surgeon cuts it out and sends it to my mom. My mom cuts it up, freezes it, and looks at it under a microscope to decides if more needs to be taken out (i.e. the cancer is still invading to the edge of the tissue).

If you have breast cancer, they take a biopsy. My mom looks at it under the microscope to decide if you need your breast cut off. What if she makes the wrong decision? They cut too much of your brain out, or they cut your breast off...And you really didn't have cancer? She does nearly 200 cases a day and went to school for nearly 10 years.

She makes big bucks, but her training and hardwork definately compensate for that.

AadosX

11-10-2004, 04:34 PM

Or lets talk about how guns don't kill people, bullets do...
We should make bullets a grand a peice, then people will think twice before capping someones ass over something small.:snipe: :cripple: :35: :redFU:

**check out that combo of smilies!**

AadosX

11-10-2004, 04:37 PM

LT1NRG

11-10-2004, 05:55 PM

Frosty_DUB

11-10-2004, 07:32 PM

It seemed like john was saying doctors deserve to get sued for malpractice BECAUSE they make so much money. I guess i didnt read it right.

A418t81

11-10-2004, 09:20 PM

And to the rest of you. I believe LT1 (Chris) was talking about the *doctors* or family doctors that you go to for checkups. They touch your balls, tell you to caugh, listen to your heartbeat, and then rake in the cash. Haha, partially kidding there... but anyways I think he was talking about them.

A typical family practice guy may get $30 for a routine physical exam w/ no bloodwork. You pay a 20 dollar copay usually. A washing machine repairman usually gets $90 just for showing up to tell you whats wrong w/ your machine, much less fix it. Same amount of time, tons less school, money, liability, etc, etc, etc......and the repairman makes 3x as much.

AadosX

11-10-2004, 10:31 PM

Weed

11-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Where are you getting that info? First of all, washing machine repair men are basically gone these days because it's so much cheaper to buy new appliances. But jackass aside, plumbers do make a good bit of cash. BUT, they also have to have insurance, and have to be good at what they do. Plumbing also (puts flame suit on) work harder than those types of doctors. Their skill and knowlege is also exclusive, just like that of the doctor. Plus they're working outdoors, etc., and not in a comfy office.

To sum this all up: There's a reason that anyone out there gets paid what they do.
Of course, and their salaries show it:
Average salaries for Birmingham from salary.com:
3rd level plumber: 40-50k/year
Family phsyician: 130k+/year

All the things you listed plumbers have or have to do is escalated 100x to be a physician of anykind. How in the world do plumbers work harder than doctors taking medical school into account (well because thats what they have to go through to get to be where they are)? Just because it's manual labor doesn't mean it's harder by any means.

Jon|Hazan

11-11-2004, 12:23 AM

Try about $800,000 for my mothers brain tumor back in 99. Thank God for insureance. She spent 19 days in Nurological ICU at UAB, after her 1.5 hours medevaq hellicopter flight. She had 3 emergancy surgeries during her stay for various blood clots and crap.

An $800k bill comming 3 weeks after you bury someone sucks. Does not matter that the insureance paid for it, it still freaks you out.

Anyway, it is call Medical "Practice" for a reason. People are too trigger happy on relesing the <strike>hounds</strike> lawyers. Unless it is a disreguard for paitent well-being then it should not end up in a court.

Just my opinion on the subject.

:( i'm really sorry to hear that.. And i entirely agree with you.

A418t81

11-11-2004, 12:58 AM

Where are you getting that info? First of all, washing machine repair men are basically gone these days because it's so much cheaper to buy new appliances. But jackass aside, plumbers do make a good bit of cash. BUT, they also have to have insurance, and have to be good at what they do. Plumbing also (puts flame suit on) work harder than those types of doctors. Their skill and knowlege is also exclusive, just like that of the doctor. Plus they're working outdoors, etc., and not in a comfy office.

To sum this all up: There's a reason that anyone out there gets paid what they do. Our society is built that way. Trust me I know... I've spent many many hours arguing and discussing things like this with my father (an economics major).

Believe it or not, I have worked in Dr's officies and I did insurance stuff as well as clinical, so I know whats going on. I also know that I paid a sears guy 90 bucks to make a house call to scratch his head and tell me in not so many words he had no idea why my machine was making the noise it was.

The fact is that Dr's are paid for their time they invested to get where they are, the amount of info they are expected to know flawlessly, the amount of liability they take on, the sacrifies they make in their own lives to help others, etc. There's a reason suicide, alcoholism, and divorce rates are some of the highest in the physician world....its NOT all a bed of roses and you would do well to remember that.

AadosX

11-11-2004, 01:16 AM

Greyson, I'm sure you know a ton about doctors haha, I wouldn't disagree with that. But I was talking about the Sears guy. And keep in mind that 90 bucks didn't go to him, it went to Sears. ;) I agree with what you guys are saying about doctors btw... I didn't say that I didn't. That's why I said"

There's a reason that anyone out there gets paid what they do.

ActiveAero

11-11-2004, 06:21 AM

Like my Ag teacher use to say "you need that ditch digger out there just as much as you need a doctor", which is true. Almost every job serves a very important purpose. The only difference is that most people out there can be taught to dig a ditch, pick up trash, or be a plumber. You can't say the same thing about being a doctor.