$100 gasoline rebates to help deal with prices?

[Angry Pirate]

Link to Article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12509275/

( I just thought this was somewhat interesting. I'd copy the article but I can't on the phone.)


What do you think? I spent $47 filling my tank yesterday.....

[Drew]

Honda FTW.

[AccoRdINlySlo]

Even pumpin 87, some how still pumped $30 worth of gas into the hatch which on a avg takes like 9-10gls to fill.:O

[A418t81]

Even pumpin 87, some how still pumped $30 worth of gas into the hatch which on a avg takes like 9-10gls to fill.:O

Is somebody in Mobile driving your car? I pulled up next to it last night and stared the guy straight in the eyes and it wasn't you. It freaked both of us out ;)

[Veedubtrek]

I'm so fucking tired of hearing about tax breaks... low income people need tax breaks, middle income people need tax breaks... upper, and high income people need to pay taxes on their taxes, why the hell don't we have a rich people tax...:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

fuck that shit :mad:

...done ranting

PS~ I'll take $100 dollars please

[adam p]

I'm so fucking tired of hearing about tax breaks... low income people need tax breaks, middle income people need tax breaks... upper, and high income people need to pay taxes on their taxes, why the hell don't we have a rich people tax...:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

fuck that shit :mad:

...done ranting

PS~ I'll take $100 dollars please

Because if rich people get tax breaks too, then they have MORE MONEY to spend, putting it back into the private sector of the economy. The upper 10% of income already pays for like 90% of our nation's taxes, so stop bitching.

[A418t81]

Because if rich people get tax breaks too, then they have MORE MONEY to spend, putting it back into the private sector of the economy. The upper 10% of income already pays for like 90% of our nation's taxes, so stop bitching.

The middle class carries most of the tax burden. The "rich" and when I say that, I mean RICH have lobbied, conned, etc their ways into tax loop holes and of course the lower class can't afford to pay taxes. Which leaves the people who go to college and work hard having to pay for every WIC mom out there who's trying to pop another one out so she can stay home AND do blow without ever having to work.

[adam p]

The middle class carries most of the tax burden.

With the top 10% of income earners paying 65% of the income tax, I'd have to disagree.

Here are 2003 numbers

Top 1% pays 34.27%

Top 5% pays 54.36%

Top 10% pays 65.84%

Top 25% pays 83.88%

Bottom 50% pays only 3.46% of the Federal income tax


http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

[Inspector]

Because if rich people get tax breaks too, then they have MORE MONEY to spend, putting it back into the private sector of the economy. The upper 10% of income already pays for like 90% of our nation's taxes, so stop bitching.

bingo! we have a winner!

...and judging by how the economy is growing at a pretty steady rate, something must be working.

[VDUBZ]

How are we going to define rich and middle class?

[adam p]

How are we going to define rich and middle class?

The point is, look at the numbers for hte top 10%. You really can't complain about rich peopel getting tax breaks. Besides, tax breaks for the rich are arguably more useful for the economy than being wasted by our government. If you see it like that, it doesnt matter where the middle class is.

You can't say that its not fair, the rich pay no taxes, WHAAA.

[Veedubtrek]

You know what, fuck it. I had a huge post, but it was probably long and nonsensical so I'll just say what I said before, but in one sentence. I am angry at the gov't because my parents have to struggle to send me and my sister through school, while the poor get grants and scholarships and the "top 25%" could pay for my whoile family to go to harvard while my parents (according to the FAFSA asses) "make more than enough money to send me to a $15,000 per year school" and yet if I hadn't lucked out with good scholarships my first year, they'd be $40,000 in debt, instead of $20,000... thanks America for fucking the middle-class

[Anderson]

You know what, fuck it. I had a huge post, but it was probably long and nonsensical so I'll just say what I said before, but in one sentence. I am angry at the gov't because my parents have to struggle to send me and my sister through school, while the poor get grants and scholarships and the "top 25%" could pay for my whoile family to go to harvard while my parents (according to the FAFSA asses) "make more than enough money to send me to a $15,000 per year school" and yet if I hadn't lucked out with good scholarships my first year, they'd be $40,000 in debt, instead of $20,000... thanks America for fucking the middle-class

There shouldn't be any luck with getting scholarships, you either deserve it or don't. Debt and loans are a part of life. If they gave the middle class/lower class cuts, in all honesty, it wouldn't help. It definitely wouldn't be 20k to get your parents out of debt. They would horde the money and stash it away, to what pay for bills and college? Where as the the rich take the money which they don't need and spend it, stimulating the economy. How does that affect you? If the economy is in a good state, guess what? You don't pay as many taxes! Not as much land tax, not as much sales tax. Your employer will be making more money which in turn will make you more money. You know back when Reaganomics where still making this country flourish under the Clinton administration the average hourly wage worker was making $6.75? Now, after Clinton put the country in a hole which we are still digging our way out the average hourly wage is, you guessed it $5.15. Its simple equations.:newbie:

[adam p]

They would horde the money and stash it away, to what pay for bills and college?

Exactly - it's not like your parents should receive 20,000 a year in tax cuts anyways - you must have a good income to even PAY that much money in taxes a year. College is expensive, yes, that's a different issue to argue about.

What do you people think is fair? Only rich people pay taxes? We already have a tax brackets where they pay MORE taxes than poor people, and the result is that the "rich" pay most of our taxes. It costs money to live in a country with a very healthy economy, equal opportunity under capitalism, and protection under [one of] the world's most powerful standing military.

In the real world, not everybody can afford everything. Gasoline is not free, college is not free. In the real world everyone has equal opportunity, but not everybody is going to make it. That is capitalism - when one person wins, somebody else loses. It sucks, it's heartless, but bitching about it doesn't help you survive.

The real issue here: Look at the rest of the world. Most people in this world are in poverty - they have more worms in thier stomach than food, and what they worry about isn't purchasing S2000 vs C5, it's how they are going to provide tomorrow's food for their family.

In return for living under our economy, where let's face it, nearly EVERYONE is rich, you have to give a little bit of it back to keep it going. I don't see how you can complain about that...


PS College is not a right, and not everybody should go

[VDUBZ]

The point is, look at the numbers for hte top 10%. You really can't complain about rich peopel getting tax breaks. Besides, tax breaks for the rich are arguably more useful for the economy than being wasted by our government. If you see it like that, it doesnt matter where the middle class is.

You can't say that its not fair, the rich pay no taxes, WHAAA.

Once again I ask my simple question.

How are we going to define rich and middle class?

and I am only quoting you b/c you did the same to me. I have not yet made and complaints or said anything is not fair

[xamraci]

Define RICH and Middle class...

Purely by my own definition...
THe middle class will be defined by the median income of a lower and upper ranges...IE...anywhere from 75k-150k on single to moderate dual income homes, to 150-300k for upper middle class dual income homes. Rich people often EARN their money also, so they should not be taxed at any higher of a rate than people that make less money. My father makes 90k a year and my mother makes 45k a year, they pay an average of..43-51 percent of their total income to taxes every year, they were smart and managed to already send three children to college, drive nice cars, live in a nice home, have nice things...my father will soon obtain another job after retirement stretching him into the above 50% tax bracket...He will owe around 50k in back taxes come next april that on top of his 2k a month he already pays out of his checks ON TOP of regular taxation.

If you work hard you are gonna pay more, if you dont work hard and make money, its still your fucking money...the RICH which I would define as anyone aquiring over 300-400k in a relatively reasonable area, while in higher end living areas, IE NY, CA...I would say you would need to be reaching into the 7 figures to BE...RICH..IMO.

Plain and simpel, tax cuts will come and go...Democrats will fuck shit up, republicans will make mistakes and attempt to give breaks to the deserving, and try and reward the willing and the accomplished...the people who take no measures to drag themselves from the depths of society deserve no such breaks and sadly enough only pay sales tax ussually. I am 22 years old and I paid 1500$ in taxes this past year from my 12k a year job...Yeah it fucking sucks...but There aint jack shit I aim to really do about it...because there will always be a GOOD place for the money to go and then there is the truth of where it really goes, to worthless ass cracked out people who pop more babies than a 14 year old girl pops pimples day before junior prom night after a 12hr ruffles and french oninon binge. Point being, gripe as you might...the system works to its functional ability. Alterations that happen to be NOMINAL will not be seen by us and perhaps might be seen by our decendents down the road...for the sake of humanity we have an obligation to pay our debts to society and the government and use a vote to speak, use your voices to deliberate, we have choices in this country we all call home. Choose to give a little or choose to take ALOT, with out conviction we havent a soul, in this world, you have just that choice to make.

I am The Crime Boss...

Out

[Grider]

Define RICH and Middle class...
BLAH BLAH BLAH (actually good stuff)
I am The Crime Boss...

Out

*BAM* --Microphone drops to the floor--

[VDUBZ]

Thanks Nick great post as always.

Now adam go back to the link you posted : http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6 and tell me who pays most of the countries taxes.

[Veedubtrek]

Define RICH and Middle class...

Purely by my own definition...

I am The Crime Boss...

Out

And a damn good definition...

With Adam's link, it seems like the rich are in the top 1% which pays about ~35% of the total income taxes... which is pretty ok, but it's not the majority, as orginally stated, while the middle class, as defined very well by Nick, does pay about 70% of the total income tax

[CPMaverick]

Well bohoo because your parents have to work SO hard to pay your way through school. My parents didn't pay shit. YOU'RE the one making them pay. Not the gov't. You can do it yourself if you feel so bad for them.

[Veedubtrek]

PS College is not a right, and not everybody should go

No way!...but seriously, I can think of a few houses around here filled with more than a few guys who are only using their daddy's money to get drunk, get laid and get a degree that means nothing to them, all-the-while there are a few people I know back home that could get a good worthwhile education with that money... instead, they're working some dead end job because their parents don't want or can't pay for school.


Well bohoo because your parents have to work SO hard to pay your way through school. My parents didn't pay shit. YOU'RE the one making them pay. Not the gov't. You can do it yourself if you feel so bad for them.

Good point... I'll shut up now. I should have stopped complaining before I even started since neither I nor my parents are paying for my last two years of school anyway :tard: ... and in fact, the department of defense is paying for it, so why the hell am I ragging on the gov't? I don't know... :bang: :nuts:

[adam p]

Hmmm yeah, middle class may pay for most of the taxes, but that's because middle class makes up most of the country. I don't think its unfair considering that the bottom 50% only pay for 3% of income tax...

Anyways, my point was that the rich don't "Get out of paying" for everything, and I was annoyed by bitchin about that (or bitching about our economy period).

[Obike]

How are we going to define rich and middle class?

I personally define the classes as follows:

Rich, people who save at least 50% of their total income each year.
Middle class, people who save anywhere from 5-50% of their total income each year.
Poor, people who live almost entirely from paycheck to paycheck.

This pretty much defines the spread of wealth in America. Most people that are millionaires... don't look like millionaires. I strongly suggest everyone here picks up the book "The Millionaire Next Door" by Thomas Stanley and William Danko.

[VDUBZ]

Hmmm yeah, middle class may pay for most of the taxes, but that's because middle class makes up most of the country. I don't think its unfair considering that the bottom 50% only pay for 3% of income tax...

Anyways, my point was that the rich don't "Get out of paying" for everything, and I was annoyed by bitchin about that (or bitching about our economy period).

Never once did I claim that anything was unfair. My point was to simply show you that the rich do not pay most of the countries taxes. Alot of them in fact get rich by using the money they make and putting it in "tax shelters" therefore allowing them to avoid paying taxes. I suggest that before you get mad next time you do as Ben suggested and pick up some financial books to read.

You should have realized that the middle class makes up most of the country and therefore pay most of the taxes before you got your frosted flakes pissed in and said that rich people pay 90% of the countries taxes. :cool: That quite possible was one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard considereing they probably make up less than 3% of the population

And did you not look at the income that the bottom 50% made up? How could you expect families that make less than 30K a year to pay more than 4% of taxes?

If you take Ben's definition into consideration I would bet that the Rich pays even less in taxes. How many families can actually save half of their income?

Your posts honestly sounded like someone in your situation would say IMHO.

[adam p]

Never once did I claim that anything was unfair.

There are more people than you in this thread, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Veedubtrek...



You should have realized that the middle class makes up most of the country and therefore pay most of the taxes before you got your frosted flakes pissed in and said that rich people pay 90% of the countries taxes. :cool: That quite possible was one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard considereing they probably make up less than 3% of the population

Oops. Yeah, I was not thinking about all about the middle class thing, and I never went back and realized what I said. Instead, I quoted you, and didn't address it because I was TRYING to sasy that my reponse to greyson wasn't my point. My point was that, as far as I can tell, rich people do their share. (looking at the top 1% paying 35% of our taxes)

Veedubtrek was complaining about "Shouldn't there be a rich people tax?!" I said, they pay higher percentages than the middle class already, and the more money they spend is better for the economy...That's the discussion I was on...

And did you not look at the income that the bottom 50% made up? How could you expect families that make less than 30K a year to pay more than 4% of taxes?

My point was that people are bitching as if poor people pay the taxes and people with money all automatically get out of paying taxes. Not true.

Your posts honestly sounded like someone in your situation would say IMHO.

I'm sorry, what exactly is my situation, again?

Hopefully you meant, my situatoin is a person who realizes that life isn't fair to everyone and socialism doesn't work. I think my situation is a person who has learned that other people are going to have more money than them, not everyone can be rich, and you don't deserve to have rich's people's money just because they have it and you don't.

That is my point. I was talking mainly to Veedubtrek, who has since ended his role in the discussion...the only reason I started talking was in reponse to his attitude.

The question of WHO is the middle class never did have anything to do with my point, which is what I tried to communicate by quoting you, VDUBZ. Nobody ever addressed what I was actually talking about, we just got off topic onto how we define the middle class :/

I'm a little offended that I'm basically told to "Go read a book," when I was never trying to get on a disussion of finance, I was talking about a social issue: complaining that "rich people exist, therefore I should get handouts from them."

[xamraci]

I personally define the classes as follows:

Rich, people who save at least 50% of their total income each year.
Middle class, people who save anywhere from 5-50% of their total income each year.
Poor, people who live almost entirely from paycheck to paycheck.

This pretty much defines the spread of wealth in America. Most people that are millionaires... don't look like millionaires. I strongly suggest everyone here picks up the book "The Millionaire Next Door" by Thomas Stanley and William Danko.

I couldnt disagree with that more...
As such statements and definitions are almost a statement of someones ability to show a level of reserve, and if your statement was anywhere near close, the average american saves less than 3% of their total income. Which would allow us to assume that EVERYONE is POOR for the most part. Those are extremely VAGUE statments as its a forecast of sorts and misrepresents most people that actually reside in a real class. Classification is based on income, the ability to spend, and the ability to save, not only the ability or financial position to save. I could technicaly put 5-10% of all my money I make, THAT DOESNT MAKE ME MIDDLE CLASS AT ALL...I would just be ABLE to spend 8-10k to SURVIVE while putting away that PERCENTAGE of my income. I could also make 60k and put 50% of my income away...I WOULD NOT BE RICH. Perhaps on a level of the ability to SAVE I might be RICH, but not in monetary terms. Forecasting someones financial position doesnt define what class they reside in. That definition Just makes no sense to me whatsoever. Mainly because IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE. That is a statment that reflects someones insight and although insight might be Valued, it cannot and SHOULD NOT define someones financial position.

I also suggest that an explanation along with hard facts would be appropriate. As I cant go purely based on someones opinions to classify people. The IRS classifies peoples wealth. Its a system of classification. And with your statments you are putting money away to be saved while your level of income is still being taxed which only decreases the ammount of CONCRETE wealth you have.

And do you mean INVEST when you say that people save their money, because that could also be defined as SPENDING money.


Your Local Crime Boss

Nick

[VDUBZ]

There are more people than you in this thread, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about Veedubtrek...

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDUBZ
How are we going to define rich and middle class?


The point is, look at the numbers for hte top 10%. You really can't complain about rich peopel getting tax breaks. Besides, tax breaks for the rich are arguably more useful for the economy than being wasted by our government. If you see it like that, it doesnt matter where the middle class is.

You can't say that its not fair, the rich pay no taxes, WHAAA.

Does this not appear that you're trying say that I'm whining about something when I had only made one statement? That's how it appears to me since I am the one being quoted. That's why I thought I should direct my comments towards you.


The question of WHO is the middle class never did have anything to do with my point, which is what I tried to communicate by quoting you, VDUBZ. Nobody ever addressed what I was actually talking about, we just got off topic onto how we define the middle class :/

It had everything to do with your point when your point was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by A418t81
The middle class carries most of the tax burden.


With the top 10% of income earners paying 65% of the income tax, I'd have to disagree.

Here are 2003 numbers

Top 1% pays 34.27%

Top 5% pays 54.36%

Top 10% pays 65.84%

Top 25% pays 83.88%

Bottom 50% pays only 3.46% of the Federal income tax


http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

[Pegasus_Red]

Phewww
damn, good stuff going down. I was thinking why not just have a flat tax rate, every one pays their share with an equal percentage of tax due at the end of each year. Id like to hear what you guys thought about this.

I am also for the personalizing of Social Securtity acounts, dont know if thats just throwing in another poker in the fire.

And as for 100 gass refunds... Id rather them give us that AND more funding and research for other fuels and development or just take it and put it towards that if we couldnt have both. Bush needs to bail out GM... they where working for fuel cell cars and ethonol fuel cars, Id rather the gas rebates go to that.

[Black Kat]

maybe ive been taught wrong but i thought middle class started somewhere in the 40-50k per year bracket and ended with uper middle class in around <125k. Im total true middle class. single parent household. my ma makes 47k-ish per year. she makes too much for us to receive grants, but not enough to pay for college. So, the job is on me to do that.