New here

[au01st]

Hey, just joined after reading the article in the Plainsman (sp?). I'm a member of a club in ATL, but it's a pretty long drive to meet up once a week. I'm glad I finally found a club in Auburn. I'm currently driving a 2001 Ford Sport Trac with too many mods to list. Looking forward to making one of the meets after Thanksgiving. Anyways, here's a pic of my truck, currently running high 14s, almost done with the nitrous install, then forged internals in the spring (wouldn't mind some help with those) and a supercharger come summer.

Oh, and are there any paint/body shops anyone recommends around the Auburn area? I want to get some stuff painted: hood scoop, fender flares, etc, etc, and I'm trying to not spend a fortune. Thanks in advance.

http://www.zjstech.net/~library/9914/Nighttime%20Pics/DSC00303-2.jpg

[VR4Rob]

Welcome, what mods do you have to your SportTrac to make it run high 14s? What are your trap speeds?

Ever think of putting an 03 Cobra motor in that thing? :D

As far as paint and body, all I can say is that I recommend strongly against United. The work I've seen from them has been average at very best.

[au01st]

Modified Volant open air intake, C&L MAF from a 2004 Mustang, bored out throttle body, Random Technology y-pipe, straight-piped exhaust, Screamin' Demon ignition coil, electric fan, and SCT tuning for 93octane. I'll be hoping for some JBA headers and a Random Tech hi-flow cat for Xmas, maybe with some smaller tires...hoping...

edit: Trap speeds are mid to low 90s, and when I say high 14s, I'm talking like 14.85-14.90.

Cobra motor would be the easy way out...if I had the means to modify the frame and firewall. I like the expression people get when I tell them that it's a V6.


edit again: Forgot some mods, underdrive crank and water pump pulleys, and overdrive alternator pulley.

[Obike]

Ray's Collision & Body over by the Ford dealership does GREAT work.

[1.8t]

Welcome. Awesome sleeper:)

[XSivPSI]

Nice, my grandpa has one. Its orange.

EDIT: and welcome, I'm a newbie myself.

[b18b1ls]

welcome:newbie: :cripple: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit: :dropit:

[Byrd]

Wow, that is a sleeper....i would have never thought :rock:

Welcome, Glad to see the article is getting some good recruits :newbie: :3pjerk:

[I want something fast]

Cobra motor would be the easy way out...if I had the means to modify the frame and firewall. I like the expression people get when I tell them that it's a V6.




I was really exited until I read that you still had the stock 4.0L V6 in there.

PS: a built Navi motor would fit...it is tight but it will fit and you will have unlimited ammounts of power to be made. Easy way out......*mumbles to himself and walks away shaking head*


Oh and welcome:newbie: :happyFU:

[au01st]

Actually, it won't, not without modifying the frame or firewall. Most of the Sport Trac's frame and front suspension is from the Ranger. The front and cab styling are from an Explorer, and the bed and tailgate are from an F-150 Stepside, and the rear suspension is like that of a 90s Mustang. There is nothing easy about this truck. If you have a 5.0 Explorer or Mountaineer, then yes, motor swaps would be much easier, but there is just no room in there without MAJOR modification, and until this is no longer my daily driver, I won't be hacking away at the frame.

Also, I think motor swaps are cheating, unless you're rockin a 4cyl. It's fairly easy and cheap to take a 4.6 mod motor and get it up to 500hp. Slap on a Kenne Belle, exhaust, and tune and you're set.

Believe me, I've done plenty or research on swapping, and mods, and while anything is possible, as a college kid with limited funds, I just don't have the money to make it feasible. I only know of a few guys who are working on motor swaps for the Sport Trac. One guy is putting in a Navi motor, but he cut the front end off from the frame forward, so it's a Navi front end. Another is working on a 350 swap, and has been for several months, and he had to chop the frame all to hell. Finally, another guy is working on a 302, and he has plenty of pics of the motor and the truck, but none of the motor in the truck. He's made no progress in several months.

Thanks for the input though.

[IronMonkey]

You need only two tools: WD-40 and duct tape. If it doesnt move and it should, use WD-40. If it moves and shouldnt, use the tape.

I would totally have to disagree on this one. The only 2 tools I would need is a BFH and ZipTies :)

Weclome.

[VR4Dani]

Welcome! Looking forward to seeing you show face after this week! Nice lookin beast :)

[I want something fast]

Actually, it won't, not without modifying the frame or firewall. Most of the Sport Trac's frame and front suspension is from the Ranger. The front and cab styling are from an Explorer, and the bed and tailgate are from an F-150 Stepside, and the rear suspension is like that of a 90s Mustang. There is nothing easy about this truck. If you have a 5.0 Explorer or Mountaineer, then yes, motor swaps would be much easier, but there is just no room in there without MAJOR modification, and until this is no longer my daily driver, I won't be hacking away at the frame.

Also, I think motor swaps are cheating, unless you're rockin a 4cyl. It's fairly easy and cheap to take a 4.6 mod motor and get it up to 500hp. Slap on a Kenne Belle, exhaust, and tune and you're set.

Believe me, I've done plenty or research on swapping, and mods, and while anything is possible, as a college kid with limited funds, I just don't have the money to make it feasible. I only know of a few guys who are working on motor swaps for the Sport Trac. One guy is putting in a Navi motor, but he cut the front end off from the frame forward, so it's a Navi front end. Another is working on a 350 swap, and has been for several months, and he had to chop the frame all to hell. Finally, another guy is working on a 302, and he has plenty of pics of the motor and the truck, but none of the motor in the truck. He's made no progress in several months.

Thanks for the input though.

I hate to tell you this but building that v6 isn't going to be nearly as cheap or as easy as you think.

[au01st]

I know it won't. In fact, it will be much harder and more expensive, but much more unique. That's why I'm going this route, how many built 4.0's do you see, especially in an Explorer.

If there is a meet on Tuesday, I won't be there, I have work, but after Thanksgiving I should be able to get there.


BTW, I work at Advance Auto Parts, so if anyone needs anything, lemme know and I'll use my discount. :D


Thanks for the welcomes. I look forward to meeting all of you.

[dixond]

Also, I think motor swaps are cheating

:partydanc
me too

[BlueBoostedTibby]

thats a nice truck. I used to own an 02explorer sport with the 4.0sohc. it was a quick little suv and lots of fun to romp in. i had an intake and those clear corner lenses. they also make a really nice looking billet grile that goes in all 4 of the spots in the bumper. however i remember explorerforums werent very helpful with performance related stuff... they just wanted big tires and mud... but that was over 2 years ago.

anyway those explorers hold a special place in my heart.


and are you from dothan or the surrounding area by chance? i remember a tricked out sport like yours from the area

[gangsta coupe]

So I take it your looking into the explorer express s/c kit and Doug Studdard for tunning?

[BlueBoostedTibby]

wow @ ^ i remember looking at that kit that was still being developed over 2 years ago. just weird seeing that info posted

[XSivPSI]

I'm from enterprise... right down the street from dothan... hung out in the BaM/home depot parking lot a few times...

[Zx RaTeD]

What's up man? Welcome, and nice truck! Ever get her dirty?

-Trent

[au01st]

I'm from Hoover, not Dothan. I've been using Explorerforums a bit; there's a few guys on there with some performance stuff. Turbos, s/c, etc. One guy is working on a Kenne Belle 4.6 for his 2003, and he expects to make around 600rwhp with it. I'm already running a tune from Doug, and yeah, I'm looking at the ExplorerExpress kit, which is finally done. There's supposedly around 100 s/c Rangers and Explorers running around the US with their kit with no problems.

[phillyd]

welcome. :newbie:

[BlueBoostedTibby]

im sorry for you xivpsi. from the limited amount of times i went out there (2) i vow never to go back.

[XSivPSI]

why are you sorry for me? i said a few times

[aufan06]

yeah me and the tibby guy have been out there once before. Every person I talked was a complete moron, not to mention they drive around like idiots revving up at everything that moves, and your not allowed out there if you don't have altezza tail lights, a huge fart can(not catback, just the tip) and a minimum of 7 NOS stickers.

[BlueBoostedTibby]

you forgot underbodies ^ .... in your dash.

[au01st]

Lol. I helped a buddy put a whole headers-back system in his Civic for less than the cost of my y-pipe. He keeps wanting to put strobes and crap on it, and I'm not letting him.

I personally don't have a problem with neons, as long as you can't see em. There's some guy around here with a silver WRX STi and you can see all 4 tubes.

[Jess]

I personally don't have a problem with neons, .

BAN

[Pegasus_Red]

Im from Homewood, and I used to hang around shanon and the crater area if you know where that is. Wellcome but please, no neons evAR.

[insert_car]

Also, I think motor swaps are cheating,

this is the craziest thing i have ever heard from someone using nitrous. hahaha how ironic

welcome to the boards man. :happyFU:

[I want something fast]

I personally don't have a problem with neons, as long as you can't see em.

Also, I think motor swaps are cheating.


It all makes sense now.

[gangsta coupe]

I like led's over neon...

[Jess]

Turbos are only cheating if you use a boost controller. Stock wastegate pressure is legit.

[au01st]

I like led's over neon...

I agree. I'm not saying every car oughta glow like the freakin sun, but when done tastefully, neons can be okay.

I'm picking up a lot of sarcasm, which is good. I have thick skin and I'll fit right in. I still think motor swaps are cheating; anyone with enough money can just buy a motor and stick it in a car. Forced induction is fine with me as long as it's done correctly. I've spent about $2k on my nitrous so far, and it still needs dyno tuning which won't come until after Xmas now due to some time constraints. I really won't worry at all when I spray, and I expect to get to low 14s, respectable for a 2ton V6 truck, IMO anyways. When I feel my need for speed, I go for a ride on the interstate in my roommate's SS up to 170, then back down, and I've got my fix for a few more weeks.


Besides, what can you tow with a Corvette? :D

[Jess]

when done tastefully, neons can be okay.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record...

BAN

Motor swaps are cheating? Thats some messed up logic...seriously. I've tried to imagine what sort of thought processes comes to such a conclusion but I'm dumbfounded.

[Pegasus_Red]

I agree. I'm not saying every car oughta glow like the freakin sun, but when done tastefully, neons can be okay.

I'm picking up a lot of sarcasm, which is good. I have thick skin and I'll fit right in. I still think motor swaps are cheating; anyone with enough money can just buy a motor and stick it in a car. Forced induction is fine with me as long as it's done correctly. I've spent about $2k on my nitrous so far, and it still needs dyno tuning which won't come until after Xmas now due to some time constraints. I really won't worry at all when I spray, and I expect to get to low 14s, respectable for a 2ton V6 truck, IMO anyways. When I feel my need for speed, I go for a ride on the interstate in my roommate's SS up to 170, then back down, and I've got my fix for a few more weeks.


Besides, what can you tow with a Corvette? :D


a brokeded mustang :rock: :D [/sarcasm]

[JohnSS]

I agree. I'm not saying every car oughta glow like the freakin sun, but when done tastefully, neons can be okay.

I'm picking up a lot of sarcasm, which is good. I have thick skin and I'll fit right in. I still think motor swaps are cheating; anyone with enough money can just buy a motor and stick it in a car. Forced induction is fine with me as long as it's done correctly. I've spent about $2k on my nitrous so far, and it still needs dyno tuning which won't come until after Xmas now due to some time constraints. I really won't worry at all when I spray, and I expect to get to low 14s, respectable for a 2ton V6 truck, IMO anyways. When I feel my need for speed, I go for a ride on the interstate in my roommate's SS up to 170, then back down, and I've got my fix for a few more weeks.


Besides, what can you tow with a Corvette? :D

I have never seen tastefull neon...

And just curious how did you know that you went 170 in your roomies SS?

[insert_car]

Besides, what can you tow with a Corvette? :D

heh well i don't need to tow anything so its cool for me :steering:

[insert_car]

I have never seen tastefull neon...


QFT

[I want something fast]

I agree. I'm not saying every car oughta glow like the freakin sun, but when done tastefully, neons can be okay.:D
I'm not touching that with a ten foot poll with herpes at the end.

I'm picking up a lot of sarcasm, which is good. I have thick skin and I'll fit right in. I still think motor swaps are cheating; anyone with enough money can just buy a motor and stick it in a car.
Anyone with enough money can have a super charger or turbo thrown on much more easily than having a motor built or swapped.


Forced induction is fine with me as long as it's done correctly. I've spent about $2k on my nitrous so far, and it still needs dyno tuning which won't come until after Xmas now due to some time constraints. I really won't worry at all when I spray, and I expect to get to low 14s, respectable for a 2ton V6 truck, IMO anyways.

2K in a nitrous setup is also dumb, especially to run 14's.

Hell Parish built his 4X4 pickup motor for around 2500 the first time and was running low 11's.



When I feel my need for speed, I go for a ride on the interstate in my roommate's SS up to 170, then back down, and I've got my fix for a few more weeks.
I seriously doubt your roomies SS will do 170 on the interstate and if it will you are an absolute fool for going that fast in that bucket.
Not to mention the obvious hypocracy of what you just said about doing all this to your truck to make it faster.




Besides, what can you tow with a Corvette? :D
Bitches...and you never tow, you haul...ass.


I am all for you making the sport trac fun, but you have got some flaws in your thinking. For one you are wanting to build a motor that has almost no aftermarket support with exception to a very small ammount of parts. Second, you seem to be hung up on not doing a motor swap because it is cheating but yet you want to put 2k worth of nitrous(how in Gods name did you spend that much) and you don't think that is cheating? What in the hell kind of school of thought did you come from?

So you will build a motor, with no aftermarket heads availible except for re worked stock heads, no good aftermarket cams, mail order tuning and 2K worth of nitrous and spend over 5K all said and done and if it runs right you will have a car that runs maybe 14's. All of that and all it would take to run 12's or lower would be a used 03 Cobra motor and ECM.

Sorry I am just not understanding the logic. You talk about not having the ability to wait for the car in it's down time or making any kind of mods to the fire wall but yet you want to build a motor?

[Jess]

Moved to Rice Discussion.

[JohnSS]

this is so much fun, I love morons in the morning:D

[au01st]

Yeah, that's fine, I'm used to getting flames. If yall don't want me to be a part of the group that's fine. I guess I mis judged. I happen to find it more fun looking for parts and having something unusual. Just because no one else does it, means I shouldn't? Maybe I should buy a Civic hatch, cause that'll be unique...

As for the nitrous setup. Nitrous Express EFI wet kit, $550. GenX upgrade kit, $300. MSD digital RPM window switch, $160. Mustang fuel pump, $110. Innovate wideband a/f w/ LC1, $375. Autometer Phantom fuel pressure, nitrous pressure, and tranny temp, $400. Fuel rail adapter...2 months time looking and finally finding that a 2004 WRX sti will work, appx $80 in parts I'll never use. Other misc fittings appx $50.

On the SS, 2.42 gears, pegging the speedometer with rpms to go. He may have been blowing smoke, but since I don't have a car to question him, I have to take his word for it.

If all yall do here is rag on other people because they don't share your views then this probably isn't a place that I want to stay. I just figured it was a bunch of cool people in Auburn who like working on their cars and giving advice. You may not like my truck or the way I spend my money, but that's why I love the US, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I personally wouldn't drive a Civic under any circumstances, but I'm not gonna insult people who do, and I won't be questioning why people do what they do to their cars, it's not my place.

[Obike]

Yeah, that's fine, I'm used to getting flames. If yall don't want me to be a part of the group that's fine.

Look, it cries!!!:flame:

Welcome and :fuckoff: :newbie:

[phillyd]

Typical n00b, need-less-to-say, this thread does not surprise me.

Who the fiz-uck has the rule book if an engine swap is CHEATING????

According to your logic, any additional part to a car other than that which is stock would be cheating..., but wait, we never established an objective did we, so what is it...from what you have posted I gather that your objective is to spend as much money as possible on components that SUCK and hate on people who have a better starting point and/or the knowledge to do after market modifications to a car that make it perform better in a drag race or in the twisties...therefore, I think you think cheating is actually someone (other than you) modding a car and seeing performance gains...THAT's CHEATING??? HAHA

another Example: So if I get a good job and make the money to pay for a 03 cobra (those are fast... ;) )....and someone else can't get a job because they are an idiot and can't think logically, resulting in not being able to buy a 'fast cheater car' or only being able to afford a '89 Escort....that means I am cheating!!! Then by all means, I am A CHEATER!!!

How the hell is N02 not cheating and an engine swap is?

Also, I tend to do things in an efficient manner...not spending more time than necessary...That makes me a cheater too huh!!

You ARE A TOOL! :flame:

This forum does not tolerate people who think with their heads JAMMED up their A$$E$, and then post those very same thoughts...ummm K.

[phillyd]

If all yall do here is rag on other people because they don't share your views then this probably isn't a place that I want to stay. I just figured it was a bunch of cool people in Auburn who like working on their cars and giving advice. You may not like my truck or the way I spend my money, but that's why I love the US, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I personally wouldn't drive a Civic under any circumstances, but I'm not gonna insult people who do, and I won't be questioning why people do what they do to their cars, it's not my place.

If you don't like the forum....leave.:rolleyes:

Honestly, I don't want to "talk" to someone about my hobby if they think rice (neons) is OK, and engine swaps (righteous move) are cheating. :O

I believe I have made my points clear....but wait, I made it to simple....I Must have CHEATED!!!!:dropit:

[Jess]

Yeah, that's fine, I'm used to getting flames. If yall don't want me to be a part of the group that's fine.

Would you like a box of tampons to go with that estrogen?

[I want something fast]

Yeah, that's fine, I'm used to getting flames. If yall don't want me to be a part of the group that's fine. I guess I mis judged. I happen to find it more fun looking for parts and having something unusual. Just because no one else does it, means I shouldn't? Maybe I should buy a Civic hatch, cause that'll be unique...

As for the nitrous setup. Nitrous Express EFI wet kit, $550. GenX upgrade kit, $300. MSD digital RPM window switch, $160. Mustang fuel pump, $110. Innovate wideband a/f w/ LC1, $375. Autometer Phantom fuel pressure, nitrous pressure, and tranny temp, $400. Fuel rail adapter...2 months time looking and finally finding that a 2004 WRX sti will work, appx $80 in parts I'll never use. Other misc fittings appx $50.

On the SS, 2.42 gears, pegging the speedometer with rpms to go. He may have been blowing smoke, but since I don't have a car to question him, I have to take his word for it.

If all yall do here is rag on other people because they don't share your views then this probably isn't a place that I want to stay. I just figured it was a bunch of cool people in Auburn who like working on their cars and giving advice. You may not like my truck or the way I spend my money, but that's why I love the US, you have your opinion, and I have mine. I personally wouldn't drive a Civic under any circumstances, but I'm not gonna insult people who do, and I won't be questioning why people do what they do to their cars, it's not my place.


What in the hell happened to this?
I agree. I'm not saying every car oughta glow like the freakin sun, but when done tastefully, neons can be okay.

I'm picking up a lot of sarcasm, which is good. I have thick skin and I'll fit right in.


All I did was ask for clarification, apparently you see the obvious flaws in your own thoughts or you wouldn't have gotten so keyed up.


Your project has potential, but you are spending money in all the wrong places. Basicly you are going around your ass to get to your elbow and it is resulting in a waste of time and money. A unique project is fun and I am not dogging on your choice of project. Uniqueness doesn't come from just doing something no else does it comes from doing a good job on something and making it different and worthwhile. In your case it isn't like it is territory that has never been explored. Pinto engines were pieces of shit and there was no reason to continue trying to massage power out of one when it made more sense and was cheaper to do a 302 swap.
There is a very good reason why there is no aftermarket support for your motor, mostly because there aren't many people using a SOHC V6 explorer motor but more than likely it is because the stock block won't handle power reliably.


You have unrealistic expectations and because you have done some internet research you now think you know something about modifying engines.
You are getting dogged because almost everyone in here has been down this road or done something similar and can see the pitfalls in what you are attempting. You are preparing to fuck up your only means of transportation in a very expensive and unneccesary venture that is only going to piss you off and result in you selling the damn car for parts.

If you are going to do it do it right, don't depend on a nitrous kit, and don't waste your time building a motor that no one makes parts for when it breaks....because it is going to break and break alot once you start pushing it to the ragged edge.


PS your roomie never got his speedo recalibrated if does indeed have 2.42(never heard of that). C5 Corvette coupes feel shakey at 155 let alone 170 and that is in a car developed to do high speeds.

[Obike]

PS your roomie never got his speedo recalibrated if does indeed have 2.42(never heard of that). C5 Corvette coupes feel shakey at 155 let alone 170 and that is in a car developed to do high speeds.

That's because they didn't have Trent's wing :)

[VR4Rob]

Yeah, that's fine, I'm used to getting flames. If yall don't want me to be a part of the group that's fine. I guess I mis judged. I happen to find it more fun looking for parts and having something unusual. Just because no one else does it, means I shouldn't? Maybe I should buy a Civic hatch, cause that'll be unique...

LOL oh boy... you are misjudging, just not in the way that you think you are. This IS a place full of cool people and GREAT advice. As people have already told you, there is a difference between being unique and being STUPID. Many people on this board have done stupid things just to be unique and it ended up costing them a lot of money and was overall just not worth it.

People arent "flaming" you because of what you drive, people are flaming you because you say things like "Neon is ok but motor swaps arent" and your general attitude that people here know NOTHING.

If you want to be cool and unique, putting a Cobra motor in it would make it 1231531234 times more unique than any setup you could dream up with your current motor. Not to mention it would be faster, more reliable, etc...

People here are glad to help, you just have to want the help and actually listen to what they say.

[phillyd]

That's because they didn't have Trent's wing :)

wings are cheating.:bfg:

[I want something fast]

wings are cheating.:bfg:
Way too much cheaters downforce....totally l337 Forged!

[I want something fast]

LOL oh boy... you are misjudging, just not in the way that you think you are. This IS a place full of cool people and GREAT advice. As people have already told you, there is a difference between being unique and being STUPID. Many people on this board have done stupid things just to be unique and it ended up costing them a lot of money and was overall just not worth it.

People arent "flaming" you because of what you drive, people are flaming you because you say things like "Neon is ok but motor swaps arent" and your general attitude that people here know NOTHING.

If you want to be cool and unique, putting a Cobra motor in it would make it 1231531234 times more unique than any setup you could dream up with your current motor. Not to mention it would be faster, more reliable, etc...

People here are glad to help, you just have to want the help and actually listen to what they say.

Seriously, here it is. I couldn't have said it better.

Rob, I and about everyone else on here has made costly mistakes or judgement errors we are just trying to help. Hell I did the right thing and re-built my truck motor back basicly stock:D and I still had issues for 6 months after.

[au01st]

My attitude isn't that people know nothing, however I do think I'm more knowledgeable than the members here on the Ford 4.0 SOHC. There are Rangers running 6-14lbs of boost making 400+ hp with methanol injection on stock internals and a stock block running through a stock 5R55E. I'm shooting for around 300 when supercharged, and 350 or so on the spray which is only for track use.

I kinda take it personally when people tell me that I don't know what I'm doing. I know for a fact that the 4.6 will not drop in without frame modifications and a different transmission/bell housing. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing a 4.6 swap, now there must be a reason for that, right? If it was so easy, don't you think all these guys with Rangers and Explorers would rather do that?

Don't you think companies like Explorer Express which markets hard to find performance parts for the Explorer, Mountaineer, and Ranger would sell a conversion kit? After all, they spent 3 years developing a supercharger kit, so there must be some demand for it.

You say I should listen to what people say, and I will listen, when they quit telling me to do things that I simply can't do. If someone here wants to put a 4.6 in a Ranger and make it reliable, there are plenty of guys I know who would probably pay cash for it. The reason no one makes parts for the 4.0 yet, is they only recently got put into the Mustangs, prior to that, it was Rangers and Explorers. There's not a huge demand for speed oriented performance products for the Explorer for obvious reasons. V6 Mustangs of the past have a following, and vendors make products for them, and I have no doubt that the longer the 4.0 is in the Stang the more performance parts will be made.

I never said motor swaps weren't okay. I think it's cheating, and I'm in the minority, but I'm not alone; more power to a guy who has the time and money to do it, but IMO, if I have a Cobra motor, it may as well be in a Cobra.

I know of several Rangers with the same motor that have run 50+ bottles through the stock internals/block with no problems. I'm welcome to constructive criticism and advice, but when people tell me that I'm doing something wrong, I generally ignore them. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and the same shit comes out.

[IronMonkey]

In the end, its doing what you want. People will have clashes of opinion, wheter its how they modify the exterior down to the lug nuts. But saying its cheating when modifying a car to get more power in a certain way is plain ignorant really. Even though there are more than one way to do a setup, but theres going to be smart way and a dumb way.

[Grider]

You started out so good, but this has turned into a train wreck. :confused: :newbie:

I would go into how your post is dripping with "my shit is better than your shit". That is not an open mind.

Nobody here knows shit about 4.0 motors, but I think that is because nobody here wants to do anything with that motor. +rep to you for trying it though. :rolleyes: Good luck.

I really don't care about a fast sporttrac. That is just my opinion. I would keep that thing a stock DD and buy something else that you could mod intelligently.

Just because you can, does not mean you should.

[au01st]

I would go into how your post is dripping with "my shit is better than your shit". That is not an open mind.

Where exactly is it like that? I joined and posted a pic of my truck. Someone asked about my mods, and I posted. Then people started telling me I was doing it all wrong and how the hell could I spend so much money on certain aspects. After I listed the quality parts that I'm using, I heard no more about it. It may not be your style, and you may think it a waste, but I think putting money into Civics is a waste, just my opinion. If my tastes offend you then just ignore my threads. I didn't come here to hear people talk shit about what they think I should do with a truck they've only seen a picture of.

[I want something fast]

My attitude isn't that people know nothing, however I do think I'm more knowledgeable than the members here on the Ford 4.0 SOHC. There are Rangers running 6-14lbs of boost making 400+ hp with methanol injection on stock internals and a stock block running through a stock 5R55E. I'm shooting for around 300 when supercharged, and 350 or so on the spray which is only for track use. I kinda take it personally when people tell me that I don't know what I'm doing. I know for a fact that the 4.6 will not drop in without frame modifications and a different transmission/bell housing. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing a 4.6 swap, now there must be a reason for that, right? If it was so easy, don't you think all these guys with Rangers and Explorers would rather do that? Don't you think companies like Explorer Express which markets hard to find performance parts for the Explorer, Mountaineer, and Ranger would sell a conversion kit? After all, they spent 3 years developing a supercharger kit, so there must be some demand for it. You say I should listen to what people say, and I will listen, when they quit telling me to do things that I simply can't do. If someone here wants to put a 4.6 in a Ranger and make it reliable, there are plenty of guys I know who would probably pay cash for it. The reason no one makes parts for the 4.0 yet, is they only recently got put into the Mustangs, prior to that, it was Rangers and Explorers. There's not a huge demand for speed oriented performance products for the Explorer for obvious reasons. V6 Mustangs of the past have a following, and vendors make products for them, and I have no doubt that the longer the 4.0 is in the Stang the more performance parts will be made.

I never said motor swaps weren't okay. I think it's cheating, and I'm in the minority, but I'm not alone; more power to a guy who has the time and money to do it, but IMO, if I have a Cobra motor, it may as well be in a Cobra.

I know of several Rangers with the same motor that have run 50+ bottles through the stock internals/block with no problems. I'm welcome to constructive criticism and advice, but when people tell me that I'm doing something wrong, I generally ignore them. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and the same shit comes out.

Thats fine build your 4.0L I have heard enough of this "well guys are getting this" bullshit...its internet racing and it gives about as much comfort as having a loaded hand gun pointed at your head the first time you decide to put your internet knowledge to the test and stick your foot in a newly supercharged stock motor.

All this talk about modified bell housings and cutting the frame...
Shit the fucking explorers had 302s in them till 2001 then switched to 4.6's in 02. I refuse to believe that it is that hard to do a swap especially since Ford did the swap in the adrenaline. Hell people said for years that the 5.4 wouldn't fit in the mustang, when it was all said and done the difference in the two blocks was less than a half an inch in deck height, and it fit just fine with small modifications to the shock towers.

And as for your rebutle about no one doing the swap, I can't tell you how stupid that sounded. People almost never put LSX style motors in any of the GM truck products but they will fit just the same from 5.3 all the way 7.0. Ford uses the same principle with thier mod motors,and how versitile it is swap into just about any full size and most mid sized platforms.

Truthfully what I think it is, you really belive it will be easier to build your pre-existing motor. All you have done is point out the negatives twords having to do any kind of cuting and rewelding of engine mounts to the frame and or swaping of bellhousings and it shows your inexperience. If you are too scared to weld some new mounts to your frame or put a new bellhousing on how are you going to express to an engine builder what you want done to your motor? Better yet how are you going to dissasemble your motor and put it back together correctly or even reinstall it?

Have fun

[au01st]

All this talk about modified bell housings and cutting the frame...
Shit the fucking explorers had 302s in them till 2001 then switched to 4.6's in 02. I refuse to believe that it is that hard to do a swap especially since Ford did the swap in the adrenaline. Hell people said for years that the 5.4 wouldn't fit in the mustang, when it was all said and done the difference in the two blocks was less than a half an inch in deck height, and it fit just fine with small modifications to the shock towers.

The 2007+ Sport Tracs have the 4.6 as an option, so it's probably much easier to fit the Cobra engine in there. The front end is modernized and more like an Explorer's, to the point where the entire front fascia is interchangeable. The 2001-2005 Sport Tracs are based on a Ranger/Explorer frame, and have the same front end basically as an Explorer Sport, which was only available with a V6. The 4.6 will not fit in the space. The 2007 Sport Trac Adrenalin Concept would have been a bad ass truck, 60/40 AWD 390hp/390tq 6 speed.

[JohnSS]

Well I guess if nothing else after you get your 350 whp then you should be able to give some new maxipads a run for thier money:rolleyes:

[au01st]

I don't like the pads, hurts too much ripping them off. I prefer adult diapers. Change it once a day and you're good to go.

:cheers2:

[JohnSS]

maxipad=nissan maxima:cheers2:

[I want something fast]

There is a parts car for sale in the selling forums, you might want to look into it as a donor car.

[au01st]

:D

My mom has an '04. It's alright, falling apart after 2 years though. All the plastic trim on the inside rattles, the door moldings have fallen off and been repaired by Nissan on more than one occasion. It is quite peppy, though. I've only driven it a handful of times but I definitely had fun when I did. When it was still newish, 120 was as smooth as 60 and you could still hold a conversation inside the cabin.

[Alex]

My attitude isn't that people know nothing, however I do think I'm more knowledgeable than the members here on the Ford 4.0 SOHC. There are Rangers running 6-14lbs of boost making 400+ hp with methanol injection on stock internals and a stock block running through a stock 5R55E. I'm shooting for around 300 when supercharged, and 350 or so on the spray which is only for track use. I kinda take it personally when people tell me that I don't know what I'm doing. I know for a fact that the 4.6 will not drop in without frame modifications and a different transmission/bell housing. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing a 4.6 swap, now there must be a reason for that, right? If it was so easy, don't you think all these guys with Rangers and Explorers would rather do that? Don't you think companies like Explorer Express which markets hard to find performance parts for the Explorer, Mountaineer, and Ranger would sell a conversion kit? After all, they spent 3 years developing a supercharger kit, so there must be some demand for it. You say I should listen to what people say, and I will listen, when they quit telling me to do things that I simply can't do. If someone here wants to put a 4.6 in a Ranger and make it reliable, there are plenty of guys I know who would probably pay cash for it. The reason no one makes parts for the 4.0 yet, is they only recently got put into the Mustangs, prior to that, it was Rangers and Explorers. There's not a huge demand for speed oriented performance products for the Explorer for obvious reasons. V6 Mustangs of the past have a following, and vendors make products for them, and I have no doubt that the longer the 4.0 is in the Stang the more performance parts will be made.

I never said motor swaps weren't okay. I think it's cheating, and I'm in the minority, but I'm not alone; more power to a guy who has the time and money to do it, but IMO, if I have a Cobra motor, it may as well be in a Cobra.

I know of several Rangers with the same motor that have run 50+ bottles through the stock internals/block with no problems. I'm welcome to constructive criticism and advice, but when people tell me that I'm doing something wrong, I generally ignore them. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and the same shit comes out.

If you want to mod a sport trac then be my guest but I learned the hard way that spending a lot of money on something that's not intended to go fast in the first place isn't the brightest idea. I have a '97 volvo 850 that I spent probably around $5k on in the course of 2-3 years. It was fun and I learned a lot in the process but in the end I had a car that didn't handle well, didn't brake well, wasn't that fast, and wasn't that reliable. It ran 14's @ ~97 mph before I decided to part it out and buy something different. Sure it was cool to surprise mustangs & camaros that don't expect anything from a volvo but in the end it costs a lot more and isn't nearly as much fun to drive as a true sports car, or at least a sporty car. If you haven't done so already, make an excel sheet listing all the parts you've bought & how much they cost, plus all the parts you intend to buy. Add that all up and let that soak in for a while.

I don't have a problem with you modding a sport trac. That's your car and your choice, and a fast sport trac would be cool in a way. But saying motor swaps is cheating is just plain dumb. And I wouldn't even consider your statement an opinion, it's more of a false statement. If someone has a car and they want to do a motor swap then more power to them. It's not easy and usually it takes a lot of time, money, and effort to pull it off. I'd love to swap a V6 into my car. If I keep the car long enough I probably will.

[gangsta coupe]

http://www.rangerpowersports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164909
1st running 4.6 in a ranger, it will fit but still a dumb idea.

btw I used to have a 4.0 ohv ranger with an V2 on it, it was quick but it was still a fucking ranger. Btw That the sohc is a ticking time bomb with those hypereutectic pistons, cast crank and that high of a c/r

[phillyd]

If you want to mod a sport trac then be my guest but I learned the hard way that spending a lot of money on something that's not intended to go fast in the first place isn't the brightest idea. I have a '97 volvo 850 that I spent probably around $5k on in the course of 2-3 years. It was fun and I learned a lot in the process but in the end I had a car that didn't handle well, didn't brake well, wasn't that fast, and wasn't that reliable. It ran 14's @ ~97 mph before I decided to part it out and buy something different. Sure it was cool to surprise mustangs & camaros that don't expect anything from a volvo but in the end it costs a lot more and isn't nearly as much fun to drive as a true sports car, or at least a sporty car. If you haven't done so already, make an excel sheet listing all the parts you've bought & how much they cost, plus all the parts you intend to buy. Add that all up and let that soak in for a while.

I don't have a problem with you modding a sport trac. That's your car and your choice, and a fast sport trac would be cool in a way. But saying motor swaps is cheating is just plain dumb. And I wouldn't even consider your statement an opinion, it's more of a false statement. If someone has a car and they want to do a motor swap then more power to them. It's not easy and usually it takes a lot of time, money, and effort to pull it off. I'd love to swap a V6 into my car. If I keep the car long enough I probably will.

well put.:thumbsup:

[au01st]

http://www.rangerpowersports.com/forum/showthread.php?t=164909
1st running 4.6 in a ranger, it will fit but still a dumb idea.

btw I used to have a 4.0 ohv ranger with an V2 on it, it was quick but it was still a fucking ranger. Btw That the sohc is a ticking time bomb with those hypereutectic pistons, cast crank and that high of a c/r

Thanks, hadn't seen that thread. The CR is good at 10.5 right now, but will be lowered to 10 when I install the new head/pistons/cam this spring/summer. I'm going with flathead pistons so I can up the spray and have some fun when it's supercharged.

[JohnSS]

Thanks, hadn't seen that thread. The CR is good at 10.5 right now, but will be lowered to 10 when I install the new head/pistons/cam this spring/summer. I'm going with flathead pistons so I can up the spray and have some fun when it's supercharged.

Just wondeing what goals you have other than the 350 hp, meaning is there anything that you are aiming to beat, for example when I first stated modding my SS I was *trying* to keep up with my friends Z28... just curious.

[xamraci]

when I first stated modding my SS I was *trying* to keep up with my friends Z71... just curious.


Edited For COntent

[Grider]

I didn't come here to hear people talk shit about what they think I should do with a truck they've only seen a picture of.

Then leave. If you cannot handle criticism then go someplace else. Because the one thing we have in fucking spades around here is criticism for stupid ideas.

When you get done, it is still going to be half an SUV. It might be polished but it is still a wagon with the c-pillars back whacked off and a small truck bed put on. I have had two SUVs (4.0 Explorer and 5.0 Mountaineer) and I miss them when I need to haul shit but otherwise not so much.

Good luck and good day, sir.

[au01st]

I'd like to run what a lightly modified Mustang GT will run, mid to high 13s in the 1/4. I'd like to get below 8.0 in the 1/8.

[Anderson]

I'd like to run what a lightly modified Mustang GT will run, mid to high 13s in the 1/4. I'd like to get below 8.0 in the 1/8.

Thats like saying "I want to bang fat ugly hookers for the rest of my life." Sure some have to bang fat ugly hookers, they have no choice. But when you have a choice, why would you? Thats a lot of money to spend on a not fast car, to make it only a little quicker and still not fast. I have a LOT of fun in my sport trac and its stock. You don't need power to have fun, but if you want something fast look elsewhere. If this was a vw commercial your fast would be fucking retarded.

http://www.vw.com/images/gti/wallpaper/img_preview_gti6.jpg

[phillyd]

This thread is still retarded....:cripple:

[Alex]

Thanks, hadn't seen that thread. The CR is good at 10.5 right now, but will be lowered to 10 when I install the new head/pistons/cam this spring/summer. I'm going with flathead pistons so I can up the spray and have some fun when it's supercharged.

Did you read my sentence about putting all these parts & prices in excel? For the love of god, please do that. That is a ridiculous amount of money you're spending on a sport trac. If you still want to then fine but you have to at least recognize the fact that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Sleepers are cool but I wouldn't spend all that money on one. You probably already have close to $5k in it now and are looking at throwing at least another $5k at it. Think about what you could do with all that money... I think I have $10k into my MR2 including the cost of the car and I can tell you, it is a blast to drive.
I don't know if you care about handling or braking at all but in case you didn't know driving a sporty car down a nice curvy road is the best thing since sliced bread!

Don't let the internet assholes scare you off too easily. More or less everything we've told you is constructive criticism and you should thank us since we've all been down that road or know someone who has. We're just trying to save you a lot of time and money but if you still want to do it, obviously it's your choice.
As long as you don't say any stupid shit like, motor swaps are cheating then you'll be fine around here.

[Jess]

As long as you don't say any stupid shit like, motor swaps are cheating and neons on an automobile are cool then you'll be fine around here.

edited for content

[insert_car]

If this was a vw commercial your fast would be fucking retarded.

http://www.vw.com/images/gti/wallpaper/img_preview_gti6.jpg

hahhaah that was pretty good.

[b18c1gsr]

My attitude isn't that people know nothing, however I do think I'm more knowledgeable than the members here on the Ford 4.0 SOHC. There are Rangers running 6-14lbs of boost making 400+ hp with methanol injection on stock internals and a stock block running through a stock 5R55E. I'm shooting for around 300 when supercharged, and 350 or so on the spray which is only for track use.

I kinda take it personally when people tell me that I don't know what I'm doing. I know for a fact that the 4.6 will not drop in without frame modifications and a different transmission/bell housing. I've never seen or heard of anyone doing a 4.6 swap, now there must be a reason for that, right? If it was so easy, don't you think all these guys with Rangers and Explorers would rather do that?

Don't you think companies like Explorer Express which markets hard to find performance parts for the Explorer, Mountaineer, and Ranger would sell a conversion kit? After all, they spent 3 years developing a supercharger kit, so there must be some demand for it.

You say I should listen to what people say, and I will listen, when they quit telling me to do things that I simply can't do. If someone here wants to put a 4.6 in a Ranger and make it reliable, there are plenty of guys I know who would probably pay cash for it. The reason no one makes parts for the 4.0 yet, is they only recently got put into the Mustangs, prior to that, it was Rangers and Explorers. There's not a huge demand for speed oriented performance products for the Explorer for obvious reasons. V6 Mustangs of the past have a following, and vendors make products for them, and I have no doubt that the longer the 4.0 is in the Stang the more performance parts will be made.

I never said motor swaps weren't okay. I think it's cheating, and I'm in the minority, but I'm not alone; more power to a guy who has the time and money to do it, but IMO, if I have a Cobra motor, it may as well be in a Cobra.

I know of several Rangers with the same motor that have run 50+ bottles through the stock internals/block with no problems. I'm welcome to constructive criticism and advice, but when people tell me that I'm doing something wrong, I generally ignore them. Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one and the same shit comes out.



get used to people talking about your shit and just take it like i did. the madness will stop soon. trust me. and welcome :newbie: :happyFU:

[Pegasus_Red]

Thats like saying "I want to bang fat ugly hookers for the rest of my life." Sure some have to bang fat ugly hookers, they have no choice. But when you have a choice, why would you? Thats a lot of money to spend on a not fast car, to make it only a little quicker and still not fast. I have a LOT of fun in my sport trac and its stock. You don't need power to have fun, but if you want something fast look elsewhere. If this was a vw commercial your fast would be fucking retarded.

http://www.vw.com/images/gti/wallpaper/img_preview_gti6.jpg
omFg! That makes me have tears in my eyes :35:


Welp, my story may or may not change your opinion, again its your car and your choice. I have a 2.4L Tacoma rated at 150 hp and I wanted to auto cross a truck. I began to look at suspension mods, and turbos. I had it all planned out, it was going to be lowwered with a custom built GT28RS and an intercooler. I wanted serious power and wanted to keep up with an STI... HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH that was a year ago and Id like to think I have wised up a bit, *opens up Grider Shit Shit Flinging shield ;) * but I came to the realization that hey, first its a Tacoma, second this is my last car, third it cant take boost as the motor is able to take it "do I hear a thrown rod and a fucked up valve or three". I then came to the reality that this is nothing but a good daily driver and thats it and nothing more and Im ok with that... kinda I want something thats small and can handle well then drive a big truck when Im alot older but thats neither here nor there. Do what you want, go ahead, I think itd be cool and I think it has potentiality to be quick, but if you want something fast, then get an apropriate car or get a car that can be EASILY modified. Personaly if I had that kind of money, id save and invest in another project and just drive that sporttrac just like it was designed to do, peacfully and sometimes off road. I think you are investing into hurting your engine which is why I think engine swaps are ok, granted I like to see built motors, but Id get more satisfaction and piece of mind if all internals are race balanaced and forged as they should with MOST forced inductions (see Future engine). Again its up to you and your choice, but know that it comes at more than just the price of the upgrades, but the potentiality that you can shorten the life of a very expensive truck and pay to get there faster. Do it right once and move on. Again your choice, but that to me would be the smartest move... and no, theres no fucking echo here so dont step on my nuts :D kthksbi

[Anderson]

get used to people talking about your shit and just take it like i did. the madness will stop soon. trust me. and welcome :newbie: :happyFU:


Fuck you, the only reason it stopped for you is cuz you quit posting. You're still not welcome.

[b18c1gsr]

Fuck you, the only reason it stopped for you is cuz you quit posting. You're still not welcome.

i didnt stop posting :fuckoff:

[Anderson]

You're right, since the "should I blow my car up" thread the only thing you have brought to a conversation is an emoticon or posted some fucked up dildo cart that only you would find pleasure in. You are such a great asset to this forum!!!!!! OMG What would we do without you?!?! We have our whipping boy, and I am sure Obike doesn't take to much to you stepping in his place. Listen, chIEf, you are a plague to this forum and you bring a whole new meaning to the word...ricer. So please stick to honda-tech and leave us. What do you gain from staying here? NOTHING! You don't show up to meets, you don't hang out with us, you don't know us. We won't help you and we will just ridicule you. Learn you some knowledge and let your balls drop then come back, hopefully we will be gone, but you never know the new generation of aSpeed may be 'less smarter' then you. Good DAY!

[b18c1gsr]

You're right, since the "should I blow my car up" thread the only thing you have brought to a conversation is an emoticon or posted some fucked up dildo cart that only you would find pleasure in. You are such a great asset to this forum!!!!!! OMG What would we do without you?!?! We have our whipping boy, and I am sure Obike doesn't take to much to you stepping in his place. Listen, chIEf, you are a plague to this forum and you bring a whole new meaning to the word...ricer. So please stick to honda-tech and leave us. What do you gain from staying here? NOTHING! You don't show up to meets, you don't hang out with us, you don't know us. We won't help you and we will just ridicule you. Learn you some knowledge and let your balls drop then come back, hopefully we will be gone, but you never know the new generation of aSpeed may be 'less smarter' then you. Good DAY!

why dont you get off my nuts and get a fucking life :fuckoff: :happyFU:

[I want something fast]

why dont you get off my nuts and get a fucking life :fuckoff: :happyFU:

He isn't on your nuts...he is on mine. And if he was on yours you would know because there would be blood dripping all over the place after I burried and axe in your tiny little head...I hate when Rick cheats on me....but I am not going to punish him for it then he will be angry at me.

[Anderson]

Mike come on now dude. I am not on his nuts. I can't be. Its physically impossible! His nuts haven't dropped yet. So there was no cheating on you, I promise!

[xamraci]

What about my nuts....:steering: :3pjerk: :wiggiesmo :cool: :eek: :locked: :rolleyes: :mad: :confused: :O :D :( ;) :O :) :D :locked: :steering: :3pjerk: :eek: :P :O :( :confused: :wiggiesmo :cool: :mad: :confused: ;) :( :) :D :locked: :3pjerk: :steering: :locked: :P :) :O :( :D ;) :confused: :mad: :cool: :3pjerk: :eek: :steering: :locked: :rolleyes: :P :O :) :D :(

[b18c1gsr]

His nuts haven't dropped yet.

thats not what your momma said :nutonit: :3pjerk:

[neoamd]

thats not what your momma said :nutonit: :3pjerk:

Coming from a fat prepubescent mooseknuckle hump'n queer fuck.

Crawl in a hole and die. :flame:






:dance:

[Pegasus_Red]

F22, will you please go back to highschool and grow up a little bit, for christ sakes this shits begining to piss me off, either that or go read about stuff other than rice world, jebus.

fuck... now I have to dig up some of the stupid shit you have said to back up my point

"i was told b4 that it only weighed about 1700 lbs so and that it had almost 150hp "
problem one, youll believe anything some one else will tell you on the "skreet" but on these boards you give hellen keller a stumble bump and run for her money.

"why dont u tell me all tha things i need to change that way they will b right!!!!"
Well give me a fucking break, wahhhh, I dont know shit about cars and dont want to research so you guys can teach me all I need to know, pardon me :whogives:
Part of the automotive enthusiast idea is that you actually know what your talking about, the requires anything from proper curb weight, to hp at both the crank and transmission (which you have an auto = bad idea)
" i need a pedal assenbly for a 95 prelude and all that other fun stuff that goes along with doin' an auto to manual conversion..... if any body has anything let me kno asap" do you know if this can evev be done? Idve done the swap on my car, I had to research the shit out of it to do it to mine. I was lucky in the sense that I didnt have to saw open my frame and install a clutch bowder tube (know what that is?) Mine was a lot more simple then what you think but I had several different platforms I had to choose from tranny wise, I had to learn what parts needed to be removed, what parts need to be added, what year to get if nesicary, how to uninstall both types transmissions (uninstalling an auto trans to me was a pain in the ass). The total swap for me was something like 300 bucks totall 50 if you count the new trans fluid I changed it out with (Good shit, Mobil 1 full synth gear oil, 2 jugs of it.) And this was done while I was in highschool on the weekends.

So in short, when a younger adult walks in here and starts postin I dont know this or that tell me tell me tell me how in the hell do you think your supposed to respond, well this is this thats thats thats how you do it? FUCK NO, your a car owner and driver (thats scary), learn about what you want to do before you start coming in here to try and build a race car, hell be smart about it. You ask what turbo is good for your car, check out this thread if you want to learn "how to do things right"
http://forums.aspeedracing.com/showthread.php?t=6004

Now before I come off sounding like a know it all Ill say this, when I got into oldschool VWs I was very similar to you minus 2 years, I was 15 and had a non running car that had been sitting since 86, I had to endure a lot of shit for things to get done both on boards to learn and ask questions, to getting so fucking dirty that grease monkeys would shit themselves. Notice in my post I didnt have a set CR rate, I researched more after spending about 1.5 hours calculating the point on the turbo flow chart, I leaned all that out of a simple "how to turbo your vw book" that I paid 15 bucks for, I sleep with it by my bed along with a Bently Service manual for my car. I dont know everything about cars, but I try to learn as much as I can before I open my mouth and talk about something I didnt know.
Learn your shit before you speak shit. And no, Im not an engineneer, I took my Pre Calc class and went into industrial design. Soo
go learn cars then come back and talk about them before you try to do anything with them, Id recomend leaning to change your oil, once thats done and the car can still run everyday and doesnt lock up from lack of oil, then move to changing spark plugs... build your knowledge like youd build your car.

and lastly, dont try to sound gangster because that shits annoying as fuck.

out

[I want something fast]

thats not what your momma said :nutonit: :3pjerk:
You are not yet in the cool kids club...thus you are not allowed to have any interaction with mothers of people in the group whether it is real or imagined.