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View Full Version : Goodbye internet (NEW GRID SYSTEM)


Jnic335i
04-08-2008, 12:59 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,347212,00.html

The Internet could soon be made obsolete. The scientists who pioneered it have now built a lightning-fast replacement capable of downloading entire feature films within seconds.

At speeds about 10,000 times faster than a typical broadband connection, “the grid” will be able to send the entire Rolling Stones back catalogue from Britain to Japan in less than two seconds.

The latest spin-off from Cern, the particle physics centre that created the web, the grid could also provide the kind of power needed to transmit holographic images; allow instant online gaming with hundreds of thousands of players; and offer high-definition video telephony for the price of a local call.

David Britton, professor of physics at Glasgow University and a leading figure in the grid project, believes grid technologies could “revolutionise” society. “With this kind of computing power, future generations will have the ability to collaborate and communicate in ways older people like me cannot even imagine,” he said.

The power of the grid will become apparent this summer after what scientists at Cern have termed their “red button” day - the switching-on of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC), the new particle accelerator built to probe the origin of the universe. The grid will be activated at the same time to capture the data it generates.

Cern, based near Geneva, started the grid computing project seven years ago when researchers realised the LHC would generate annual data equivalent to 56m CDs - enough to make a stack 40 miles high.

This meant that scientists at Cern - where Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented the web in 1989 - would no longer be able to use his creation for fear of causing a global collapse.

This is because the Internet has evolved by linking together a hotchpotch of cables and routing equipment, much of which was originally designed for telephone calls and therefore lacks the capacity for high-speed data transmission.

By contrast, the grid has been built with dedicated fibre optic cables and modern routing centres, meaning there are no outdated components to slow the deluge of data. The 55,000 servers already installed are expected to rise to 200,000 within the next two years.

Professor Tony Doyle, technical director of the grid project, said: “We need so much processing power, there would even be an issue about getting enough electricity to run the computers if they were all at Cern. The only answer was a new network powerful enough to send the data instantly to research centres in other countries.”

That network, in effect a parallel Internet, is now built, using fibre optic cables that run from Cern to 11 centres in the United States, Canada, the Far East, Europe and around the world.

One terminates at the Rutherford Appleton laboratory at Harwell in Oxfordshire.

From each centre, further connections radiate out to a host of other research institutions using existing high-speed academic networks.

It means Britain alone has 8,000 servers on the grid system – so that any student or academic will theoretically be able to hook up to the grid rather than the internet from this autumn.

Ian Bird, project leader for Cern’s high-speed computing project, said grid technology could make the internet so fast that people would stop using desktop computers to store information and entrust it all to the internet.

“It will lead to what’s known as cloud computing, where people keep all their information online and access it from anywhere,” he said.

Computers on the grid can also transmit data at lightning speed. This will allow researchers facing heavy processing tasks to call on the assistance of thousands of other computers around the world. The aim is to eliminate the dreaded “frozen screen” experienced by internet users who ask their machine to handle too much information.

The real goal of the grid is, however, to work with the LHC in tracking down nature’s most elusive particle, the Higgs boson. Predicted in theory but never yet found, the Higgs is supposed to be what gives matter mass.

The LHC has been designed to hunt out this particle - but even at optimum performance it will generate only a few thousand of the particles a year. Analysing the mountain of data will be such a large task that it will keep even the grid’s huge capacity busy for years to come.

Although the grid itself is unlikely to be directly available to domestic internet users, many telecoms providers and businesses are already introducing its pioneering technologies. One of the most potent is so-called dynamic switching, which creates a dedicated channel for internet users trying to download large volumes of data such as films. In theory this would give a standard desktop computer the ability to download a movie in five seconds rather than the current three hours or so.

Additionally, the grid is being made available to dozens of other academic researchers including astronomers and molecular biologists.

It has already been used to help design new drugs against malaria, the mosquito-borne disease that kills 1m people worldwide each year. Researchers used the grid to analyse 140m compounds - a task that would have taken a standard internet-linked PC 420 years.

“Projects like the grid will bring huge changes in business and society as well as science,” Doyle said.

“Holographic video conferencing is not that far away. Online gaming could evolve to include many thousands of people, and social networking could become the main way we communicate.

“The history of the internet shows you cannot predict its real impacts but we know they will be huge.”

jsta240
04-08-2008, 01:06 PM
where Sir Tim Berners-Lee invented the web in 1989

sounds made up. we all know gore invented the internet

TheWill
04-08-2008, 01:43 PM
It will never happen in Alabama... there are already places in the US that are blazing past our little 3 and 5 meg setup. Just have to go to a booming metropolitan area and pay for the shit. Just run fiber to the desktop/Laptop adn call it a day.

Grider
04-08-2008, 03:09 PM
There is no need to do fiber to the desktop. It is pretty and sexy but there is not going to be a need for it until after you get something faster than 1000GB to a building. And hell copper is doing 10GB now so maybe that number goes up.

There has been blabbering about FTTD for as long as I can remember. And I've seen one small lab that had it done out of all the copper installs I have seen. Fiber's rep at being expensive dooms it in most people's eyes. Also the cost involved with its swtiches is a huge drawback. A 24port 100base fiber module for a Cisco 6500 is like 9-10k bucks. To say nothing of having to put a fiber ethernet card or a transiever on the end computer.

Fiber will stay in the server/data center and continue to be used for interfloor and interbuilding links (multimode) and long distances (singlemode).

Also that article is crap. The internet is a hodgepodge of technologies and devices but the problem lies in the last mile of communications. I.e. you have to run something like Verizon's FIOS setup to the houses to even be able to take advantage of something like that. That's not backbone problem but a service provider's problem. Until you get some company that wants to actually bite the bullet and change out a huge portion of the cable plants of the phone system with fiber then you are not going to have these crazy data rates you get in other countries.

TheWill
04-08-2008, 04:33 PM
I know, fiber to the desktop is over the top expensive and pretty much ridiculous but i just figured that I would throw it in.

Jnic335i
04-08-2008, 04:42 PM
I know, fiber to the desktop is over the top expensive and pretty much ridiculous but i just figured that I would throw it in.

just admit it you are the stupid

TheWill
04-08-2008, 04:55 PM
just admit it you are the stupid
?????

phillyd
04-08-2008, 05:52 PM
...in addition to Grider's post....with the ever increasing budget crunching, I highly doubt that *most* companies will ever justify a need for anything faster than 1GB switching...fiber is used in ALOT of companies for their infrastructure, but once you leave your own property fiber is WAY too expensive to justify. Most users around the business world use PCs/Server/internet for basic word processing, email, and relatively small data retrieval and storage...what about any of those justifies the need for ridiculously fast and expensive fiber to the curb/house/desk/etc...? The 'GRID' would be cool, but the 'internet' isn't going anywhere anytime soon and the infrastructure will remain predominately copper.

TheWill
04-08-2008, 06:02 PM
:( :( :( .........I realize this, fiber is stupidly expensive i was just making an outlandish post that made no sense. I apologize and have the seen the error of my ways. The main reason I brought it up was that a professor in the COB always says that the OIT Group for Auburn University is a bunch of idiots b/c they did not listen to him about putting Fiber to the Desktop and that they are wasting money using copper. Even though the fastest computers that we have on campus are 100mbps unless you are special and get a Gb connection.

neoamd
04-08-2008, 06:03 PM
There is no need to do fiber to the desktop. It is pretty and sexy but there is not going to be a need for it until after you get something faster than 1000GB to a building. And hell copper is doing 10GB now so maybe that number goes up.

There has been blabbering about FTTD for as long as I can remember. And I've seen one small lab that had it done out of all the copper installs I have seen. Fiber's rep at being expensive dooms it in most people's eyes. Also the cost involved with its swtiches is a huge drawback. A 24port 100base fiber module for a Cisco 6500 is like 9-10k bucks. To say nothing of having to put a fiber ethernet card or a transiever on the end computer.

Fiber will stay in the server/data center and continue to be used for interfloor and interbuilding links (multimode) and long distances (singlemode).

Also that article is crap. The internet is a hodgepodge of technologies and devices but the problem lies in the last mile of communications. I.e. you have to run something like Verizon's FIOS setup to the houses to even be able to take advantage of something like that. That's not backbone problem but a service provider's problem. Until you get some company that wants to actually bite the bullet and change out a huge portion of the cable plants of the phone system with fiber then you are not going to have these crazy data rates you get in other countries.

:cheers2:

Grider
04-08-2008, 06:27 PM
:( :( :( .........I realize this, fiber is stupidly expensive i was just making an outlandish post that made no sense. I apologize and have the seen the error of my ways. The main reason I brought it up was that a professor in the COB always says that the OIT Group for Auburn University is a bunch of idiots b/c they did not listen to him about putting Fiber to the Desktop and that they are wasting money using copper. Even though the fastest computers that we have on campus are 100mbps unless you are special and get a Gb connection.

Those that can, do.
Those that can't, teach.

You'll do well to remember that when you come out to the real world. :D

Professors are very smart people without a lot of common sense in most cases. Also the term "we cannot afford that" doesn't really compute with them unless they have some serious real world experience in their field.

God there is no way in hell I can go back to the COB at Auburn. I'd be failed on sight for calling people out as idiots. :D

...in addition to Grider's post....with the ever increasing budget crunching, I highly doubt that *most* companies will ever justify a need for anything faster than 1GB switching...fiber is used in ALOT of companies for their infrastructure, but once you leave your own property fiber is WAY too expensive to justify. Most users around the business world use PCs/Server/internet for basic word processing, email, and relatively small data retrieval and storage...what about any of those justifies the need for ridiculously fast and expensive fiber to the curb/house/desk/etc...? The 'GRID' would be cool, but the 'internet' isn't going anywhere anytime soon and the infrastructure will remain predominately copper.

Cliff Notes: Fiber is fucking ridiculously expensive and overly complicated from phone companies.

Our 12 pairs of single mode fiber for metroE cost us 20,000 bucks just for the 4 inch underground conduit Bellsouth/AT&T required for it. If you've seen single mode fiber you realize that the utilization of that conduit is like .0001% because they won't run the copper for the campus down there either. I have no idea what ATT "paid" for the 950 feet of single mode they had to run from in front of the building 200 feet down to an intersection then down 600 feet down the road then the 150 feet into the building. But I know it was not cheap.

The converter equipment they brought us will do 1Gb/sec on both the fiber and Ethernet interfaces but ours is only set to 10mb/sec . The total time it would take to upgrade that to 1Gb/sec is like 10 minutes for the changes to filter down from the AT&T networking guys. We are going to 20Gb/sec in a few months as a beta site for ASA rolling that out in many places in state. But it doesn't do our remote campuses a lot of good. Wadley is a) a backwater b) in a different LATA (Birmingham) so getting connections back to Montgomery (ASA's distribution point) takes a federal government act usually. Same with Valley (its in the Atlanta LATA) but at least it has some semblance of a decent phone company. I'd put 10mb/sec metroE in Wadley in a fucking heartbeat as it would shut some people up, but since its in a different LATA AT&T is real bitchy about how they want it setup even though it is the same fucked up company.

Damn all that is confusing. If you read all that and somewhat understand it you get a cookie....

TheWill
04-08-2008, 07:06 PM
Yeah I lsot you about halfway down. I am personally very excited about auburns new plan to take all th new dorms and make them all wirelss, but wait bob there not done yet. They are going to also go from G radios to N radios which requires a new level of encryption a re deployment of software for the security and a complete upgrade to any current software and the computers that will be involved. They are not going to offer any copper whatso ever in the new dorms. I am simply a little astonighed

Obike
04-08-2008, 07:33 PM
For clarification, the only thing Tim Berners-Lee invented was hypertext (therefore HTTP), what most people refer to as the "World Wide Web". He didn't invent the internet... DARPA did.

Grider
04-08-2008, 08:13 PM
For clarification, the only thing Tim Berners-Lee invented was hypertext (therefore HTTP), what most people refer to as the "World Wide Web". He didn't invent the internet... DARPA did.
LIES!!

xamraci
04-09-2008, 03:58 AM
Its all about the dollars and cents...

Costs outweigh...then it fails

Nstig8r
04-09-2008, 04:29 AM
I don't think you will EVER see internet speeds like that mentioned on a hardwired connection for the reasons Jason explained... The "last mile" is what kills it. What probably what WILL happen is some sort of high speed network based off of point-to-point wireless or a satellite based system.

Japan recently launched and is currently testing a satellite based internet system with up to 1.2 Gbps... now THAT is fast. The theoretical home user with a small dash would get a connection speed of 155Mbps down/8Mbps up.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/02/23/japan.satellite/index.html

ChukiDori
04-09-2008, 08:56 PM
The grid = Skynet

We are doomed *Gets to work on bomb shelter*